[jadmin] Which server? jabberd 2.0, ejabberd, or Jive?

KWermann at misti.com KWermann at misti.com
Mon Oct 10 12:15:26 CDT 2005


Hey Matt,

That is great news! I haven't updated my server to that version yet. 
Thanks for the info.

Best Regards,

Ken Wermann



jadmin-bounces at jabber.org wrote on 10/10/2005 12:57:38 PM:

> Ken,
> 
> Just to clarify on the SSL issue -- if I'm understanding what you're
> describing, we found and fixed that issue for the 2.1.5 release (June 
14).
> 
> The issue is described at: 
http://www.jivesoftware.org/issues/browse/JM-306
> 
> Basically, we were including a DSA cert by default but not an RSA 
> cert, which is what GAIM and a few other clients require. There was 
> also a different issue with Trillian SSL support. That's fixed in 
> the latest Trillian Jabber plugin release and was a client-side 
> issue, I believe.
> 
> If you're seeing issues different than the two cases described 
> above, be sure to let us know!
> 
> Regards,
> Matt
> 
> From: jadmin-bounces at jabber.org [mailto:jadmin-bounces at jabber.org] 
> On Behalf Of KWermann at misti.com
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 9:46 AM
> To: s.devrieze at pandora.be; Jabber server administration list
> Cc: Jabber server administration list; jadmin-bounces at jabber.org
> Subject: Re: [jadmin] Which server? jabberd 2.0, ejabberd, or Jive?

> 
> Many of those points are good on eJabberD. But as stated, we don't 
> have the manpower resources required to deal with some of the items 
> on eJabberD that you mentioned. Additionally, unless it has changed,
> last I checked, eJabberD is still numbered as if it is in beta. I 
> could be wrong on that and it may be a great system, but anything 
> below a 1.0 is usually not considered a deployable application in a 
> business environment. I know this is a matter of opinion, I don't 
> want to argue it here, so don't flame me on this. 
> 
> The SSL connection issues are a client side problem, IMHO the server
> should work with whatever SSL libraries are used on the client end. 
> I don't believe the Jabber specs call for the use of a specific 
> library over another, which would leave this burden on the server 
> programmers to ensure their libraries work with all client 
> libraries, or at least the more common ones. I mention it because it
> doesn't appear to occur with JabberD or eJabberD, but does with 
> Jive. Be careful, if your environment requires a specific client, it
> may not work with Jive without the client being recompiled. You may 
> find the need for that client requires you to use JabberD or eJabberD, 
> 
> Best Regards, 
> 
> Ken Wermann
> 
> 
> jadmin-bounces at jabber.org wrote on 10/10/2005 11:28:42 AM:
> 
> > On Ma, oktober 10, 2005 15:52, KWermann at misti.com wrote:
> > > We don't use eJabberD because we don't need to scale for thousands 
of
> > > users.
> > 
> > /me uses ejabberd on a server that has only three real users...while 
there
> > is at least one server with more than 160,000 users. So, scalability 
do
> > not means that you *only* can use it on (very) big hosts.
> > 
> > > We recently looked at JabberD 2 and Jive Messenger and decided to
> > > use Jive, here's why:
> > >
> > > 1 - We are a small shop. We don't have alot of time to mess with 
another
> > > dedicated Linux box (as much as we love it and regardless of the 
many
> > > arguments against my claim, Linux does take more admin and any 
intern can
> > > feel comfortable on Windows server).
> > 
> > * All Linux distributions: download the Linux installer, make it
> > executable, and run it (very similar to the Jive Messenger installer 
but a
> > much smaller download).
> > * FreeBSD: portinstall ejabberd
> > * Debian: apt-get install ejabberd
> > 
> > > 2 - Jive provides a built-in web based administration console. 
JabberD
> > > doesn't have this out of the box.
> > 
> > ejabberd also has a web interface.
> > 
> > > 3 - Jive gives us the option to move to Linux or Windows out of the 
box.
> > > We don't need to install anything like Cygwin on Windows and deal 
with the
> > > problems that so often exist in that confiuration.
> > 
> > Because Java is not open like Erlang, you will probably be able to run 
it
> > on more different systems.
> > 
> > > 4 - Jive provides built in logging functions easily accessible from 
the
> > > admin interface.
> > 
> > Not as easy as Jive in ejabberd.
> > 
> > > 5 - With Jive I didn't need to separately install or modify Apache 
or IIS
> > > to get the web interface going. Built-in goodness.
> > 
> > Same for ejabberd.
> > 
> > > 6 - MUC is built in and does not require a MUC component be added to 
the
> > > server.
> > 
> > Idem ditto for ejabberd.
> > 
> > > 7 - Support from the Jive Messenger guys is pretty quick and people 
are
> > > very friendly over there.
> > 
> > Depends on the time zone.
> > 
> > > 8 - For small installs, the application comes with the ability to 
use an
> > > HSQL database (similar to that used in OpenOffice?) to store user 
info.
> > > Besides having the ability to store users in XML, MySQL, or 
PostgreSQL.
> > 
> > Similar for ejabberd. However, the ejabberd database (Mnesia) should 
scale
> > better (clustering features).
> > 
> > > Now, for the cons:
> > >
> > > - Many components for JabberD do not quite integrate easily yet with 
Jive.
> > 
> > There are tutorials to help you install transports when you use 
ejabberd (
> > http://ejabberd.jabber.ru/tutorials-transports ). Most parts of these
> > tutorials can be helpful too in case you use Jive Messenger, jabberd 
1.4,
> > jabberd2,...
> > 
> > > - SSL setup (using self-signed SSL certificates) on Jive is a 
freaking
> > > nightmare. It seems like just about everyone that has tried it has 
had
> > > problems and there are tons of posts on the Jive message boards 
about
> > > this. It works, but took forever to figure out after searching and 
posting
> > > to the message boards for a few days. That said, I know the guys 
over
> > > there are aware of this and are working to make this alot easier.
> > 
> > I do not hear similar complaints about this regarding ejabberd.
> > 
> > > - Because of the SSL implementation of some Jabber Clients (Mozilla 
vs NSS
> > > libraries), not all clients will work with Jive (GAIM on Windows, 
Exodus),
> > > but many others do such as Pandion, GAIM on Linux, and JAJC. It 
depends on
> > > the SSL libraries used when the client is compiled. That is why Gaim 
works
> > > on Linux but not Windows. So know what client you would like to use. 
In my
> > > environment we run MACs, Windows, and Linux but do not use a single 
client
> > > across all platforms such as GAIM. Instead we run Adium on Mac, 
Pandion on
> > > Windows, and GAIM on Linux.
> > 
> > Isn't this a client issue?
> > 
> > -- 
> > Mvg, Sander Devrieze.
> > xmpp:sander at devrieze.dyndns.org
> > 
> > ejabberd, the expandable Jabber daemon. --
> > http://ejabberd.jabber.ru/
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
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> > jadmin at jabber.org
> > http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jadmin
> > FAQ: http://www.jabber.org/about/jadminfaq.shtml
> > 
> 
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