Null clients (was: [JDEV] The "OpenAIM" Project)
al at alsutton.com
Wed Jan 9 01:23:31 CST 2002
This idea would also fit into the corporate way of thinking.
If enterprises could have a single point of relay between their intranet
and the internet they would only have to worry about controlling one
place to handle access control, virus scanning, etc., etc., etc.
I like this idea a lot.
On Wed, 2002-01-09 at 05:15, Michael F Lin wrote:
> I would just like to throw the idea of null clients into this mess. You
> will recall that a sendmail null client is an instance of sendmail
> configured such that it will not relay any external messages, but it will
> send messages originating from the local host. This translates into Jabber
> as a local daemon that looks like a Jabber server on localhost to any local
> processes (clients, apps, aim-t), but connects out to the Jabber cloud as a
> client. In the process of routing, it would rewrite the JIDs, just as the
> sendmail null client rewrites the email addresses. Since it is not
> externally a Jabber server, AOL can't log into it.
> Now obviously this "violates the spirit of jabber" in that we need a much
> heavier implementation (essentially a Jabber server) on the client machine.
> However, this solution is compatible with existing client software, and I
> would also like you to consider some of the possibilites it opens. Firstly,
> it would allow Jabber to be used as a local IPC mechanism, which could be
> quite interesting, and would scale very naturally to an RPC mechanism.
> Secondly, (this idea is also copied from sendmail), it allows for
> end-to-end store and forwarding, which IMHO is something we will need down
> the line anyway in order to viably build web services on top of Jabber.
> Obviously this idea is still a rough cut, but take it into consideration.
> <jeremie at jabber.o To: jdev at jabber.org
> rg> cc:
> Sent by: Subject: Re: [JDEV] The "OpenAIM" Project
> jdev-admin at jabber
> 01/08/2002 11:43
> Please respond to
> There is a very simple reason why any approach like this is doomed to
> As far as I can tell, the technique AOL is/was using to track the IPs
> being used by aim.jabber.org was that they had a dummy AIM account and
> registered the transport to use it via jabber like any normal user does.
> Either they just used a normal client to do this or script with a jabber
> module. Once aim.jabber.org logged into AOL w/ that dummy account, they
> would examine the source IP for that client connection (I'm sure they
> regularly block abusive users/IPs and this action is quite easy with their
> administrative tools).
> The entire thing could be automated on their side, and it would only take
> a very short amount of time to obliterate any network of aim transports or
> socket redirectors.
> I fully agree, this battle isn't one for the technology, our technical
> resources are better spent improving Jabber, and if anyone has political
> resources those are probably best spent showing the world why a commons
> for communication platforms is so important over closed
> commercial/corporate networks.
> On 8 Jan 2002, Adam Theo wrote:
> > Hmm... A thought just occured to me when reading about these Socket
> > Redirects. I am not familiar with them, so they may already have this
> > ability.
> > The key would for any "permanent solution" to be completely transport
> > side. This is opposed to the client-side which would require users to
> > install new software (won't happen), or even server-side which would
> > require server admins to re-do their entire server installation. Here's
> > a solution:
> > Modify Temas's AIM-T to find other AIM-T's on the Jabber network in a
> > DNS-like propogation system (how DNS entries spread accross the
> > internet). When someone connects to an AIM-T, any AIM-T, the collective
> > AIM-T's "shuffle" the users connections around, randomizing IPs and
> > distributing load. Once a hundred or so IPs are on this "OpenAIM"
> > network, it would be near impossible for AOL to track down even a small
> > percentage of the IPs... especially if the IPs are somehow transparent
> > to the client (to stop an AOL employee downloading and tracking AIM
> > connections through Jabber). The only IP the client would see is the
> > AIM-T at their home server, but the IP that actually is making the
> > connection could be any one of dozens if not hundreds. Alot of potential
> > here, folks... And this OpenAIM network would bring on alot of those
> > "multi-protocol" clients that are not yet 100% Jabber... I would see
> > Everybuddy and GAIM becoming full Jabber clients if we could pull this
> > off...
> > And in actuality, I think alot of the technology to do this is already
> > out there, it just needs to be pulled together.
> > Yes, I'm 100% behind this idea. I am a crappy programmer, but I would be
> > willing to dedicate some pocket money to help a programmer or two get
> > this up.... Whadda say? I know there are some problems, but instead of
> > shooting this idea down, how about we put our thinking caps on and
> > figure out viable solutions? Wow, I think this could work...
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