[standards-jig] Jabber in a multi-lingual world (and JEP-0045...)

Follower follower at myrealbox.com
Fri Sep 27 12:13:03 CDT 2002


Hi all,

There's been some discussion in the thread "Version 0.6 of JEP-0045
(Multi-User Chat)" about languages, specifically whether JEP-0045 needs
to cover anything to do with the "native" language of a room.

Here are my thoughts on the subject...

I believe it can be shown that yes, JEP-0045 should cover, at least to
some degree, the native language of a room.

Here's the key justification:

There are two issues with a room having a specific language assigned as
"native" for the room, the one that concerns JEP-0045 is the question
"How is a native language set for a room?". (See discussion below for
the other question.)

The scope section of the JEP states "This JEP addresses common
requirements related to configuration of ... multi-user chat rooms."

The native language of a room certainly applies to "multi-user chat
rooms", and "relate[s] to the configuration of" them. Thus I believe
JEP-0045 is a suitable place to cover the issue.

(As this has been discussed in the Jabber rooms, I believe it also fits
the "common" specifier.)

I believe the most relevant section is "5.1 Workflow for Initial Room
Configuration", specifically step 3: "The service must send a message to
the creator of the room containing a configuration form".

I suggest we add a field in the form from Example 31 ("Service Sends
Configuration Form") to allow the native language be specified (e.g.
'native-lang' or something else based on xml:lang), which could default
to 'en' or 'none' for example.).
(Discussion of the details can wait until we've agreed the info should
be there.)

This would probably also mean adding to section "3. Requirements" in the
"additional features and functionality" segment something of the form
"enabling room owners to specify a native language for the room".

It could be questioned if native language selection for rooms is "core"
enough to justify inclusion in JEP-0045, I believe it is, after all how
essential is language to group chat with Jabber?

Here's the background and related discussion.

The background for my interest is the use of automatic machine
translation of chat rooms. I've been experimenting with this via a bot
(and had some success, ask me for a demo if you're interested. :-) ),
and ran into the issues of how messages/users/rooms could have "native"
languages assigned to them. I've contacted the original author of
JEP-0026 ("Internationalization") with the idea of creating a "small
step" JEP to cover client side issues. But I'll leave that out of this
discussion.

There are two issues with a room having a specific language assigned as
"native" for the room.

* How is a native language set for a room? (Covered above.)

* How is the native language of a room discovered?

I'll deal with the question "How is the native language of a room
discovered?" here, as an answer has already been by Richard Dobson:

In a recent post to the thread mentioned above he said:

  > It could also be part of the browse response like:
  > <iq type="result">
  > <item xmlns="jabber:iq:browse" category="conference" type="public"
  > name="Conference Service" jid="conf.jab.org">
  > <item xmlns="jabber:iq:browse" category="conference" type="public"
  > name="French Room" jid="french at conf.jab.org" xml:lang="fr"/>
  > </item>
  > </iq>
  >

This this does indeed seem logical and standard, although i'm not sure
it would handle the possibilities of multiple "native" languages in one
room should the need arrive. However as this is a browse issue it does
not need to be covered by JEP-0045.

Thoughts?

-- Phil.






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