[Standards] Questions about xhtml-im

Jehan Jehan.3dcyib at no-mx.jabberforum.org
Wed Jul 30 06:04:33 CDT 2008


Peter Saint-Andre;1984 Wrote: 
> 
> Please quote the entire section:
> 
> ***
> 
> A user agent that implements this specification MUST conform to Section
> 
> 3.5 ("XHTML Family User Agent Conformance") of Modularization of XHTML.
> 
> Many of the requirements defined therein are already met by Jabber 
> clients simply because they already include XML parsers.
> 
> However, "ignore" has a special meaning in XHTML modularization 
> (different from its meaning in XMPP). Specifically, criteria 4 through
> 6 
> of Section 3.5 of Modularization of XHTML state:
> 
> 4.
> 
> W3C TEXT: If a user agent encounters an element it does not 
> recognize, it must continue to process the children of that element. If
> 
> the content is text, the text must be presented to the user.
> 
> XSF COMMENT: This behavior is different from that defined by
> XMPP 
> Core, and in the context of XHTML-IM implementations applies only to
> XML 
> elements qualified by the 'http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml' namespace as 
> defined herein. This criterion MUST be applied to all XHTML 1.0
> elements 
> except those explicitly included in XHTML-IM as described in the 
> XHTML-IM Integration Set and Recommended Profile sections of this 
> document. Therefore, an XHTML-IM implementation MUST process all XHTML
> 
> 1.0 child elements of the XHTML-IM <html/> element even if such child 
> elements are not included in the XHTML 1.0 Integration Set defined 
> herein, and MUST present to the recipient the XML character data 
> contained in such child elements.
> 
> ***
> 
> > What I understand is
> > that when I encounter a tag which I recognize as being xhtml, but
> which
> > is not in the xhtml-im subset, then I must display it "as is"?
> 
> Let's say you receive this:
> 
> <html><body><p>I like the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol 
> (<abbr>XMPP</abbr>).</p></body></html>
> 
> In this case you would display the XML character data of the <abbr/> 
> element even though it's not part of the XHTML-IM integration set.
> 
> That's just one example.
> 
> /psa

Sorry I did not understand (or at least as much as the original).

So when you write to "display the XML character data", you mean that
you just dump the tag element, and display its content ("XMPP") ?
So you display this:
> I like the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP)

This would look natural to me (and I think to have understood this is
also how the W3C recommends it for the core xhtml .

Or do you mean that you display the unknown (in  xhtml-im subset) tag
element itself to the simple user view, so this:
> I like the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol
> (<abbr>XMPP</abbr>)

So one will see unprocessed tag (and if the user does not know what is
xhtml, it would look like strange unknown words)...

I am sorry if I don't understand this... That's probably about word
definition here where I am not sure about what you call the XML
character data of an element:
1/ character data in XML being the "normal" text between the tag
elements;
2/ or character data as a graphical character/pictogram in an alphabet
(what we call a "character set" in computer science)?
Thanks.

Jehan

P.S.: for the rest of my questions, thanks for the answers. I guess I
shall read and try and understand the concept of modularization of
xhtml, as you suggest. :-)

Anyway for the part about semantic/structure versus style/display,
probably there can be discussions about this (and you already had
apparently), but even though I am completely partisan of structure, I
understood well the two points here which are that this XEP is for IM,
and that normal users cannot be asked to think about structure when they
just care about style.

Yet just to answer shortly about this point:
> > The style should come from the meaning of the tag, like in the web!
> 
> How so? Remember that we don't have external CSS here.

In case where structure would have been chosen above style (even
though, as I remind, I understand now why style is chosen in IM), there
may be a small CSS just for the few available tags in xhtml-im on client
side (then a user could even modify their personal CSS).


-- 
Jehan
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