[webteam] radical simplicity

[Robert Martinez]

Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
> On 05/24/2008 6:48 PM, Robert Martinez wrote:
>   
>> Matthew Wild wrote:
>>     
>>> On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 8:35 PM, Robert Martinez <mail at mray.de> wrote:
>>>  
>>>       
>>>> Matthew pointed out correctly that we are drifting away from the key
>>>> questions somewhere else in the thread.
>>>> So I restart here.
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> Good call.
>>>
>>>  
>>>       
>>>> I have no complete overview of what is "broken" with the current system
>>>> (maybe somebody can put together a list with more precise drupal related
>>>> problems?)
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> Here goes:
>>>
>>> Missing clients in the clients list (probably same applies to servers
>>> and libraries). More than once client authors have complained about
>>> this.
>>>
>>> http://matthewwild.co.uk/screenshots/jabber.org_1.png
>>> Filters that are complicated, confusing, and don't work.
>>>   
>>>       
>> Somebody would have to code a custom front end for that since the
>> standard "expose filter" option tries to give all possible search
>> options and does not offer to hide unneeded ones.
>> A workaround would be to provide selected pre-built views.
>>     
>
> I don't understand what that means.
>   
the standard drupal surface for filtering content is ugly.
we can't make it much more user friendly just by "clicking things 
together" in the backend.
>   
>>> http://matthewwild.co.uk/screenshots/jabber.org_2.png
>>> Errors.
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>> I removed the  date field of the clients. The error seems to be gone now.
>> The problem seems to be that the date module has been removed without
>> prior de-activation.
>>     
>
> Is there a way to solve this? For example by re-installing it,
> re-activating it, and then de-activating it before remove it again (or
> something crazy like that)?
>
>   
Since they're not terribly important i prefer  not to care about this.  
It will probably be solved with the drupal 6 migration and a "cleaning 
up process" anyway.
>>> http://matthewwild.co.uk/screenshots/jabber.org_3.png
>>> Blocks that shouldn't be there. (I am aware that this was to
>>> work-around the Google Analytics module that wasn't working).
>>>   
>>>       
>> Seome drupal caching does not let me know if the hardcoded script works
>> as well.
>> So the block with the script will remain for now.
>>     
>>> http://matthewwild.co.uk/screenshots/jabber.org_4.png
>>> Libraries (happens with servers and clients too) with apparently
>>> missing data: http://matthewwild.co.uk/screenshots/jabber.org_beep.png
>>>
>>> However the data is not actually missing:
>>> http://matthewwild.co.uk/screenshots/jabber.org_beep1.png
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>> This may be due to some content type change without proper alignemnt of
>> the corresponding views.
>>     
>
> Can we track these changes down?
>
>   
some filters try to filter upon fields that no longer exist/exist in 
another way.
(i once changed some field types accordingly to hedgemages tipps)
it was a bad idea to change something afterwards.

maybe it is solved by just creating a new view ()
>>> Add this, to the fact that more things break each time Drupal is
>>> upgraded, compatibility with different modules, is lost, etc.
>>>
>>> Probably more things that I don't see right now.
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>> You are right about the modules. We definitely use too many. (I know you
>> mean that core drupal is more than enough :P )
>>     
>>>  
>>>       
>>>> My attempt would be to re-start the drupal page from scratch, this
>>>> time with
>>>> all the aspects that made problems right from the start.
>>>> And more important: restart with somebody who likes to work on drupal
>>>> has
>>>> some experience and time to do so.
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> You previously said we should not start from scratch, as the work to
>>> date would have been a wasted effort. While I didn't agree with that,
>>> I don't see why it makes sense to start again with Drupal, and not
>>> start again with something simpler, which we know won't be a potential
>>> source of unforeseen problems further on down the road.
>>>   
>>>       
>> Starting from scratch would mean to rethink the whole structure of the
>> content types and the strategy of what modules to use. I also don't want
>> to do this alone again - last time I begged for some assistance, i won't
>> do the same error again and start doing things just on my own. I will
>> only restart this with some assistance.
>> As I mentioned before I'm also working on some theming.
>> So - starting from scratch could mean drupal 6, less modules, newer
>> theme, and a new underlying data structure.
>>     
>
> Do we really want to change the underlying data structure? I'm not sure
> that's necessary.
>
> Peter
>
>   
I don't think we want to - but it would be better :P
I would really appreaciate to (at least) go through the whole structure 
with some drupal savvy people.
cleaner and more transparent structure in the background is crutial.

Robert