[webteam] radical simplicity

[Robert Martinez]

Sander Devrieze wrote:
> 2008/5/24 Robert Martinez <mail at mray.de>:
>   
>> Sander Devrieze wrote:
>>     
>>>> In my eyes this is pretty clear. We are the ones to do the talking and
>>>> showing here!
>>>> We need to tell people about their freedom,
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> People are not interested in this
>>>
>>>       
>> that's why we need to tell it.
>>     
>
> Strange logic :D
>   
I believe it is a wide known fact: People tend to loose their freedom if 
nobody remembers them to defend it.
If there would be one page that has to do that it should be jabber.org.
But this question is leading us to more philosophical issue. You might 
not agree - but let's better talk about radical simplicity vs drupal.
>   
>>>> We need to show how things in the xmpp world work,
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> People are not interested in this; it only should work and then
>>> they'll be happy. Note that the definition of "work" is that of the
>>> user of XMPP software; if he thinks it does not work because he can't
>>> chat with people on a walled garden network, he is right.
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> I'm not interested in this. (Off topic)
>>     
>
> It's not off topic: if you don't give the people you target with the
> website what they want, the website never can become successful in
> accomplishing its goals.
>
> <snip>
>   
I think you misinterpreted my "show how things in the xmpp world work" 
as "every visitor has to know every XEP by heart". I meant: "to provide 
a user friendly explanation of the basic concepts of jabber (like 
server, client,  transports, resources, ...)".
You also seem to want to talk about transports and the definition of 
"working" in that context, again.
That would be off topic.

>>> IMO jabber.org should act like an umbrella to promote the XMPP brand:
>>> * no documentation at all (client projects can do that better)
>>> * few text
>>> * lots of up to date screenshots of clients (not older than the latest
>>> release)
>>> * lists of XMPP clients, XMPP compatible services, XMPP servers, XMPP
>>> libs,...
>>> * links to XMPP projects
>>>
>>>       
>> That's what I said - I guess you want to say we do need drupal for this,
>> too?
>>     
>
> We don't need anything: what tool(s) are used is irrelevant; the
> important thing is having the right content.
>
>   
How come you say that it is irrelevant what tools we use?
This question seems to be the topic of this thread - not?
And of course right content matters. Did anything or anybody disagree ever?
>>> * an XMPP button programme (idea: XMPP projects and XMPP services can
>>> put a button on their website that links to a page on jabber.org, this
>>> page presents the user with basic information about interoperability
>>> and it links to lists of compatible software and services)
>>>
>>>       
>> If we do our job right this will happen automatically.
>>     
>
> Nothing happens automatically; someone has to do this.
>
> <snip>
>
>   
This button thing may be a nice brainstorm idea, but if you look at it 
from a slightly different angle you could rephrase it like this:
"Jabber.org has to rock in a way that projects benefit from it." That's 
certainly on our agenda.
The resulting action to link to us is nothing we have to ask for, 
organize or whatever.
People will _just do so_. Kind of automatically.


I feel like we are heading off topic with the issues you raise.

My main interest in this thread is to make sure we don't abandon a user 
friendly CMS (like drupal), just because we're having difficulties in 
maintaining it right now.
Especially in regard to the vast opportunities we would loose by doing so.


Robert