The conclusion is that this horrible hangouts app does not interoperate with xmpp contacts and that puts me in serious problems.


On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 5:11 PM, <iot-request@xmpp.org> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. google abandoning XMPP? (Sebasti?n Odena)
   2. Re: google abandoning XMPP? (Ashley Roach)
   3. Re: google abandoning XMPP? (Leslie Qi Wang (qiwa))
   4. Re: google abandoning XMPP? (Peter Waher)


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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 13:00:48 -0300
From: Sebasti?n Odena <sebodena@gmail.com>
To: iot@xmpp.org
Subject: [IOT] google abandoning XMPP?
Message-ID:
        <CA+268gDSdj5Jfej+j3o+WO5n=AYrnd613KaV7+d0SkELikFNAg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Does somebody have any news about google abandoning XMPP protocol?
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 10:40:16 -0600
From: Ashley Roach <aroach@gmail.com>
To: XMPP in the Internet of Things <iot@xmpp.org>
Subject: Re: [IOT] google abandoning XMPP?
Message-ID: <D30A80FA-278E-4A59-A306-FBA81DBBE1E3@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

So, that sentiment is expressed in this article:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/15/4318830/inside-hangouts-googles-big-fix-for-its-messaging-mess

> Talk, for example, was built to help enterprise users communicate better, Singhal says. "The notion of creating something that?s social and that?s always available wasn?t the same charter as we set out with when we created Talk." With Hangouts, Singhal says Google had to make the difficult decision to drop the very "open" XMPP standard that it helped pioneer.


Given that my XMPP session to gtalk still works, they clearly haven't abandoned the protocol entirely.  My guess is that they changed the backend implementation away from a "pure" XMPP infrastructure (maybe shifted to a different pub sub technology), and provide c2s XMPP "gateway" or the like for compatibility sake.


On May 16, 2013, at 10:00 AM, Sebasti?n Odena <sebodena@gmail.com> wrote:

> Does somebody have any news about google abandoning XMPP protocol?
> _______________________________________________
> IOT mailing list
> IOT@xmpp.org
> http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/iot

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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 16:42:08 +0000
From: "Leslie Qi Wang (qiwa)" <qiwa@cisco.com>
To: XMPP in the Internet of Things <iot@xmpp.org>
Subject: Re: [IOT] google abandoning XMPP?
Message-ID:
        <25472B7D9C1C574C96D27CC952D49FA33238A364@xmb-rcd-x15.cisco.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Is there any reason they make this decision?

Best Regards
Leslie

From: iot-bounces@xmpp.org [mailto:iot-bounces@xmpp.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Roach
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 12:40 AM
To: XMPP in the Internet of Things
Subject: Re: [IOT] google abandoning XMPP?

So, that sentiment is expressed in this article:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/15/4318830/inside-hangouts-googles-big-fix-for-its-messaging-mess

Talk, for example, was built to help enterprise users communicate better, Singhal says. "The notion of creating something that's social and that's always available wasn't the same charter as we set out with when we created Talk." With Hangouts, Singhal says Google had to make the difficult decision to drop the very "open" XMPP standard that it helped pioneer.

Given that my XMPP session to gtalk still works, they clearly haven't abandoned the protocol entirely.  My guess is that they changed the backend implementation away from a "pure" XMPP infrastructure (maybe shifted to a different pub sub technology), and provide c2s XMPP "gateway" or the like for compatibility sake.


On May 16, 2013, at 10:00 AM, Sebasti?n Odena <sebodena@gmail.com<mailto:sebodena@gmail.com>> wrote:


Does somebody have any news about google abandoning XMPP protocol?
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 16:44:54 +0000
From: Peter Waher <Peter.Waher@clayster.com>
To: XMPP in the Internet of Things <iot@xmpp.org>
Subject: Re: [IOT] google abandoning XMPP?
Message-ID:
        <1693EFE1FD641C42A0D542FCBC732DE6A5F4509E@EX3.YODA.UTOPIA.LOCAL>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello Sebasti?n.

Perhaps not the correct forum (as this thread has to do with XMPP in Internet of Things), but I'll respond anyway.

It's a strange thing to say that Google drops the XMPP protocol. Could you provide sources?

Perhaps you refer to the news that came out yesterday, about Google dropping Google Talk?
http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/15/4318830/inside-hangouts-googles-big-fix-for-its-messaging-mess

It has been discussed in threads like this:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1343916

It has nothing to do with XMPP itself, but in Googles inability to create a popular Instant Messaging (or social) platform. It has happened before (Google Wave, now Google Talk, soon Google+). They've dropped many projects they hoped would be successful, but weren't. Has nothing to do with the underlying protocol or technologies used.

In retrospect, it's not really strange that Google has been unsuccessful with IM (or social platforms): It's against what Google does: Google wants to centralize everything, to be able to use that information for commercial purposes. Social information is in essence private, and there's a huge distrust in providing that to Google. (That Facebook succeeded in this might be because nobody knew FB when they started.) XMPP is about decentralizing and distributing information, not having to go to central repositories, where personal security and integrity might be an issue. It has had difficulty attracting attention, since it is easy to find alternatives.

You can see similar conflicts occur in other areas as well, like the Internet of Things, where it is common for large enterprises to desire control of the entire infrastructure. To them, XMPP is a threat as it is open, extensible, interoperable, standardized and free.

Sincerely,
Peter Waher


From: Sebasti?n Odena [mailto:sebodena@gmail.com]
Sent: den 16 maj 2013 12:01
To: iot@xmpp.org
Subject: [IOT] google abandoning XMPP?

Does somebody have any news about google abandoning XMPP protocol?
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End of IOT Digest, Vol 11, Issue 4
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