I fully agree to all of this.
I'd prefer for the XSF to postpone the political discussion as long as possible (not very optimistic how long that will be, open technology is becoming more political fast). Fortunately we don't need the political discussion right now: the platform degraded so much that the case is clear cut.
And feel free to ask my personal opinion if you are in for an hour of ranting...
Winfried
On 24 January 2025 15:51:55 CET, Dave Cridland <dave@cridland.net> wrote:First, the boring bits:
I don't think this needs a vote at all - though if it gets one, it's binding. Outside of a vote taking it out of their hands, it's a decision for the comms team.
Second, my opinion as Board Member:
For me, it comes down to cost/benefit. The-social-network-formally-known-as-Twitter has always had the not-insignificant cost, for the XSF, of being a closed platform that we don't support, condone, or promote anyway. Yet we've been on it, as an organisation, for years, because it was a useful mode of outreach.
If this outreach has dropped significantly - or indeed if we no longer have the data to know - then its utility is at an end.
But I would also not rush into ditching it without having a replacement outreach in place - and I'd love to see that being one or more gateways from something we do want to support, condone, and promote. (Mattermost? Movim?).
As for Musk's behaviour, this also pushes a thumb on the side of the scales marked "cost". I don't think the XSF particularly needs a public opinion on whether he was deliberately mimicking a Nazi salute - the decrease in the utility of the platform is quite enough reason. There's plenty of places banning links to the platform, now, and these things mean that actively engaging on the platform has significant downsides.
However, that all said, we should shutter, not close, the account to avoid anyone else from obtaining the name - and if the platform is actually useful to us, we should continue to use it.
So first and foremost, I'd like to hear from the Comms Team operating the account, and I'd support a Board-level vote to act as an umbrella for any political fallout from this - though as I note, this is not a political decision but one based on utility alone, even if politics almost certainly has had an effect on utility.
Third, my personal opinion:
So, you'll note I'm being cautious of stating my opinion in terms of how I think the XSF should act. You may from that be drawing the conclusion that I am some kind of Musk fanboi. I shall now disabuse you of this notion - but still, in general terms I do try to keep my personal opinions away from what I think the XSF should do.
I always thought Musk was a twat, and have long refused to consider one of his products for that reason alone, but he really seems to have gone off the deep end now. Either he's accidentally managed a Nazi salute, in the style of Hitler at a rally, or he's done so deliberately - either way he's avoiding apologising, and making it clear that's not what he meant, and condemning Nazism. Instead he's smirking and being "edgy". What a fucking pillock.
Dave.
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 at 09:16, Mathieu Pasquet <mathieui@mathieui.net> wrote:
Good day everyone,
The topic has come up in the xsf@ chatroom, and it has been suggested that we take this topic to the mailing list, so I will be doing just that.
Twitter was never a spotless social network (is there any?), but it did allow at one point somewhat global communication; nowadays it is mostly a far-right echo chamber [1][2], that its owner (a man who is very used to racist dogwhistles [3][4], transphobic discourse [5], and other ways [6] of denying the humanity of a sizeable portion of the world’s population, essentially a 4chan troll, which is quite clear for anyone who has seen him tweet) is using to propel his nazi or nazi-adjacent champions [7][8][9] across the world in the hope that they win elections. My personal opinion is that staying there is not taking a neutral political stance., if that is something the XSF is interested in.
Moreover, and this might be of interest to people all over the political spectrum (in a way that supporting human rights is sadly not anymore), the reach that the platform could allow is simply gone, because all the features and algorithms have been tweaked over the year to promote clashes, insults, and divisive content [10], something I do not believe the XSF wants to engage in.
We are already on mastodon, with much better numbers (and probably more actual people), and if we are not on BlueSky we can either use a bridge to appear there, or open an account there and hope it will also be a decentralized network one day.
I assume this needs a decision by the board or a member vote, so here I am.
The topic came up last year [11] but I do not believe a decision was reached.
I know the topic can be somewhat divisive, but I believe the mailing list can be a better venue to discuss it than the chatroom.
Regards,
Mathieu
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Normally there is some text here, bragging about the new phone and excusing for the brevity. That is insane: if this phone was really that great, I would have sent a decent mail.