Dave Cridland kirjoitti 12.2.2025 klo 19.56:

On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 at 12:27, MSavoritias <email@msavoritias.me> wrote:

Let me also point out (I become a broken record a bit I know) that our CoC is explicitly against racism and also implicitly against transphobia that Twitter doesn't seem to care about https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0458.html#pick-your-words

It's certainly intended to be explicitly against both. But to be horribly accurate, it's intention is to be against either being a factor in not being welcoming. Point is it's about actions not labels. Effects, rather than causes.

People are biased and prejudiced in all manner of ways, and I certainly include myself there. But we should all strive to be welcoming nonetheless.

So I also urge the XMPP membership to consider (and speak up please :) ) about following our own CoC and principles.

The XSF doesn't use Twitter X in any way that contravenes the CoC, and nor should it.

If the site's stated purpose was for racist and/or transphobic remarks, then that would indeed be an issue, but it's not.

As I've said before, I'm absolutely fine with ceasing to use the site if we're not getting useful engagement. I'd imagine the most likely reason for not getting useful engagement is Musk right now, but that's a cause, not the effect, and it's the effect we should concentrate on as an organisation.

Dave.

What I mean here Dave is that:

We should all consider how Jewish people in our community, or trans people, or immigrants or black people would feel, and what they would perceive to be the values of XSF as a whole if we were in X and promoting X (by saying people to follow us there, by driving traffic to X, by still being on X and contributing to the network effect).

An organization is not only about what it does inside itself, but it is also who it associates with.

As an example if I saw FSF being at a Google conference or Microsoft Conference promoting their products I would be wondering if their values have been compromised.

To bring it back to XSF if XSF promoted an anti-immigration conference, what would that show as values of XSF? We certainly have the CoC that you drafted that says the values but there seems to be a disconnect here. And I bet the immigrants that would be involved with XSF would think twice about being involved.

And we talked about before in the CoC thread. Namely that we have a CoC but there seems to be no kind of consistent enforcement around these values.

Now to bring that back to X/Twitter, what values of XSF are reflected here by using Twitter that are written in the CoC? And to bring it to something more actionable:

How many people/contributors are we actually pushing away because we don't enforce our CoC? (one of these usages being Twitter) We like to think that posting on Twitter is just an "apolitical" thing, but what values does it reflect outwards to potential contributors? 

Github that was brought up as an example would be us compromising Free Software and decentralization values for example. *But* we don't have these values as XSF so there is nothing to really compromise there. (to emphasize here: I am not saying we should or shouldn't have these values.)

MSavoritias