Thanks a lot for the feedback.

> it's MUC only

Goffi, I can see the appeal in making this more generic indeed, and it looks like Zash's finding is very interesting in this regard.

> XEP-0310: Presence State Annotations

Zash, the "use case" of my proposal is not covered, but it looks like it could be added indeed. Something like:

<presence
    from='service.montague.lit'
    to='romeo@montague.lit'>
  <state-annotation xmlns="urn:xmpp:psa" from="montague.lit">
    <server-available />
    <description>Slidge has finally finished booting up. Re-join all my MUCs!</description>
  </state-annotation>
</presence>

> I have a few of my services' JIDs on roster, but most other people won't do that.

Ivan, I don't think using presence would be an issue here, even if you don't have the service in your roster. Supporting clients could treat it differently than "roster spam", unsupporting clients likely already ignore it. Maybe I am missing something?

My concern with using XEP-0310 would be more about the requirement of special support for this use case in clients. With my proposal, we use a mechanism that does something already in most clients.

On the other hand, the XEP-0310 approach would solve the obvious missing optimisation from my proposal: a single stanza from the service per member instead of one stanza per member per room. Also, the MUC service I develop is expected to be the user's roster, and already sends an "available" presence to registered users on startup, so that's very minimal work for me to implement (as is my proposal).

I am glad my proposal started a discussion about this topic. I am opened to retracting it in favor of an update to XEP-0310.

- Kev, would you be in favour of such an update of your submission from yesterday? (wait, 2012 isn't yesterday?) I guess it would simply be a new "4.4 MUC service restarts" paragraph with a new <server-available> element.

- Client devs, do you have any feedback? If no one of you think this is a good idea, there isn't much point in advancing this further. I would love to know why though!

-- nicoco