Hello XMPP aficionados!

For a client joining a MUC, XEP-0045 defines a very strict order of events (section 7.1). Is it allowable that a server sends _more_ events (that are not in the list specified in XEP-0045)?

I've observed that in the wild, at least one implementation sends a presence stanza 'from the room itself' (with CAPS), preceding the events defined in section 7.1.

There is an argument to be made that the XEP defines the order of the events, but leaves room for there to be 'more' events. One could argue that this is in line with the extensible nature of XMPP. 

On the other hand, I think that it's fair to say that this is stretching things to an extent where it is not unreasonable for implementations to not account for this (thus introducing potential interop issues).

I would like for the XEP to be more explicit, and either explicitly allow or disallow this behavior. I have not quite made my mind up which way I lean, to be honest. I'm interested in learning about the views on this from the community.

For context, this has been previously discussed in the XSF Discussion MUC. This is a link to the public message archive of that discussion. https://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2024-09-07#2024-09-07-78b71f7983a88d14

Kind regards,

  Guus