On 28 August 2025 02:35:04 CEST, Elle <elle+xmpp-standards@weathered-steel.dev> wrote:
>- The communications platform *is* apolitical. It does not distinguish between "bad" things (like enabling C&C systems for malware) and "good" things (like rapid triage of pressure sores). So people use it for both.
>
>We'll just have to agree to disagree here. My point about OMEMO is that the UK and a number of other countries have just passed legislation that aims to backdoor all E2EE communication platforms. Like it or not, refusing to backdoor OMEMO will become an explicitly political position, along with its current technical and ethical underpinnings.
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>Regardless of its applied usage, the point is like you said for the server operators / protocol to be ignorant of the contents of E2EE messages. While there may be attacks outside the protocol, the XSF is entering into an ethical stance that it will not knowingly compromise the security of OMEMO. At least, I hope XSF makes this commitment.""
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>The "Four Horseman of the Cryptocalypse" is a classic line of argument, I'm sure you're aware, used to strip people of their civil liberties/rights, in the name of the "good" guys protecting from the "bad" guys.
>
>My point is, XSF may be apolitical regarding the usage of the protocol (and I really question that), but the choices around infrastructure, Code of Conduct, Bylaws, software license, etc are all political-social-ethical choices at some level. Maybe not primarily, but at some level these choices have implications in those realms.

First off, while the XSF is currently the major focus point of concerted protocol development for, and promoting the use of, XMPP, it is not the end all and be all of all things XMPP. The core protocols are defined over at the IETF, and you'll find it has a similar approach to try and keep its workings as neutral as possible. Also, the protocol *and* the community are intentionally distributedly extensible. That means that stuff can, and does, happen outside of the XSF.

Second you are correct that nothing is absolute, including views on political, social, or ethical topics. My job as a director, and chair, is finding the delicate balance between the personal views of individuals in the XSF Membership and the XMPP community in general, and the stated goals of the XSF. Our mission statement (<https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/mission/>) is quite clear on the position the XSF takes. We also expanded this in our procedures (e.g. <https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0001.html>) and design guidelines (<https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0134.html>).

Your concern with regard to OMEMO can be held to all those documents, just as I use them to guide my work as a director. Also note that we have already been the target of related pressure, and will continue to push back.

Again I want to stress that the XMPP community includes people not just rooted in FOSS and its varied(!) political leanings, but equally from corporations, non-profits, education, government, supranational organisations, and military organizations.

This all is why trying to elicit a specific response with the casual mentioning of a major geopolitical event is not helpful to me, and why I made the general stance on my approach.

--
ralphm
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