I note that FAST introduces an external (to HT-*) counter as a replay protection. This feels like a layer violation, in as much as replay protection feels like it's a concern of the SASL mechanism.

Previous attempts to get a mechanism with a coordinated counter through this working group were tricky, Chris Newman observed that for many distributed systems this was complex. Examples given were email clients simultaneously connecting to IMAP and Submission, and read-only LDAP "mirror" servers. (See https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cridland-kitten-clientkey-00 for the design I abandoned in favour of HT-* for mostly this reason).

So, question:

Do we want to put a replay counter into HT2-*?

(I'll send a follow-up to standards@xmpp.org concerning the 0-RTT replay case specifically)

Dave.

On Mon, 22 Jun 2026 at 09:09, Florian Schmaus <flo@geekplace.eu> wrote:
On 12/05/2026 13.28, Florian Schmaus wrote:
> I've uploaded draft-ietf-kitten-sasl-ht-01. The major changes since the
> adoption by the Kitten WG are
>
> - the introduction of a response status byte to indicate success or
>    failure responses
> - the capability to transmit authenticated key/value pairs in the
>    exchanged messages (e.g., for XEP-0474 [1])
>
>
> SASL-HT is already deployed using an older and incompatible version of
> the I-D in some parts of the XMPP ecosystem. Therefore, we probably need
> to adjust the SASL Mechanism Name to avoid interoperability issues. For
> example, from
>
> HT-SHA-512-ENDP
>
> to
>
> HT2-SHA-512-ENDP
>
> Please forgive my lack of creativity regarding the new name. Suggestions
> on a more creative naming schema that is in-line with the constraints of
> SASL Mechanism names are appreciated.
>
> And, of course, feedback in general is welcomed.
I am going to ask the Kitten WG chair to initiate the next step for
SASL-HT this week. Therefore, *now* would be a good time for feedback.

FAST (XEP-0484) is currently using draft-schmaus-kitten-sasl-ht-09. The
diff between this version and the lastest can be viewed via

https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url1=draft-schmaus-kitten-sasl-ht-09&url2=draft-ietf-kitten-sasl-ht-02&difftype=--html

The latest version of sasl-ht uses the HT2-* prefix for its SASl
mechanism name, instead of the HT-* prefix used by version -09. This
name adjustment was necessary because the wire protocol changed
slightly. It is perfectly fine for XEP FAST to continue using -09.
Support for HT2-*, and its advantages, like support for SASL downgrade
protection, can be deployed alongside it a later time (and shouldn't
require any changes to XEP FAST).

- Flow
_______________________________________________
Standards mailing list -- standards@xmpp.org
To unsubscribe send an email to standards-leave@xmpp.org