[Council] i18n JEP

David Waite mass at akuma.org
Wed Apr 3 18:43:55 CST 2002


I didn't know if the authors would be CC'd on the reviews of the JEPs; I 
thought they would just receive the position paper. Fine with me either 
way :-)

Speaking of position paper - mind if I volunteer to mark this one up, 
since I stepped forward first with comments?

-David Waite

Peter Saint-Andre wrote:

>I've cc'd Max so he can see your comments. Also added him to the Council
>mailing list just to be sure.
>
>--stpeter
>
>On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, David Waite wrote:
>
>>Sure!
>>
>>1. What does xml:lang mean on a presence element? Can you specify 
>>different status messages for different languages?
>>2. How can other systems query the current language of a user? (This 
>>must be documented, as it is server to server and implementation 
>>independant)
>>3. Can another user query the current language(s) of a user, so that 
>>they can decide whether they are capable of talking to them?
>>4. Can a user specify they support more than one language? Parts of this 
>>JEP look like they are programming locale for proper localization of 
>>communication from the server, which is fine having one constant 
>>language. However, other parts look like they are for conveying 
>>information on messages _I_ send - but I might want to talk to a few of 
>>my friends in French, but not my parents since they don't understand a 
>>lick of it. I would probably end up switching from French to English 
>>within the context of a conversation (and even within a single message) 
>>because my French is bad. I also might want to specify in my vCard that 
>>I know both French and English, but you cannot specify two languages 
>>using xml:lang (as it is an attribute) .
>>5. Section 2.1 ; I don't think it is appropriate for the 'server' to 
>>respond back with a language setting. Nothing in the Jabber architecture 
>>requires the server to be a single unit like this, and there is nothing 
>>that distinguishes one server from another once you are connected to the 
>>Jabber network (internal.jabber.org could just as easily be another 
>>server installation as it could be some manner of gateway). Different 
>>endpoints will have different language capabilities, so this will need 
>>to be reported to the user on a endpoint-by-endpoint basis. Getting the 
>>language back in the stream:stream header only indicates some miniscule 
>>facet of the overall Jabber network has recognized your preference.
>>6. It doesn't make sense to both require a compliant server to flag 
>>messages, and for clients to flag messages so they can work with 
>>non-compliant servers. I would propose that clients should just flag all 
>>messages, since they are required to have that logic.
>>
>>So to summarize:
>>- Clients should flag all requests with an appropriate xml:lang 
>>attribute. I think it is safe to assume that no value indicates a 
>>setting equivalent to the locale of the server for legacy.
>>- Users may wish to have a way to indicate the languages they can 
>>support for conversation; this probably should be an extension to vCard. 
>>Components should not programmatically fetch this information, it is for 
>>user experience only. Multiple languages can be specified, so xml:lang 
>>is probably inappropriate.
>>- xml:lang on stream:stream means nothing
>>- presence may not mean anything with xml:lang added; if present, it 
>>should be equivalent information to the vCard extension mentioned above 
>>(as in, it should refer to the default language preference of the user.) 
>>For presence to mean something, it might be neccessary to flag 'status' 
>>with xml:lang, and allow for multiple statii.
>>- xml:lang relations between endpoints is going to need to be defined 
>>based on the type of endpoints, and should probably be defined within a 
>>JEP for whatever describes that endpoint. For example, a conference room 
>>may or may not indicate a language setting; this may or may not indicate 
>>the language preference of present users.
>>
>>-David Waite
>>
>>Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>>
>>>Any feedback on the 18n JEP?
>>>
>>>http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0026.html
>>>
>>>Peter
>>>
>>>--
>>>Peter Saint-Andre
>>>email+jabber: stpeter at jabber.org
>>>weblog: http://www.saint-andre.com/blog/
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Council mailing list
>>>Council at jabber.org
>>>http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/council
>>>
>>
>>
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>
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