[Council] meeting agenda, 2007-06-25

Chris Mullins chris.mullins at coversant.net
Mon Jul 2 21:25:17 CDT 2007

I just re-read both the PEP & PubSub XEPs from beginning to end. I think
both are great, and will bring more, rich features to XMPP land. I've
indicated support for these at every turn, and look forward to wide

I am concerned that PEP is immature to include as a Recommended Server
feature, given that we don't yet have any implementations out there, but
the Chicken/Egg argument is a compelling one, and I would like to see
this rolled out sooner, rather than later. 

I'm sure this will be revisited again next year, but for now, I retract
my -1 vote. Let's get it implemented and rolled out and see what kind of
chickens hatch from our bio-engineered eggs. 


Chris Mullins

-----Original Message-----
From: council-bounces at xmpp.org [mailto:council-bounces at xmpp.org] On
Behalf Of Peter Saint-Andre
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:50 PM
To: XMPP Council
Subject: Re: [Council] meeting agenda, 2007-06-25

Chris Mullins wrote:
> Well, just recommending it is defiantly including it. 

RECOMMENDED essentially has no teeth, it's just an FYI for future years.
Plus until servers support PEP, clients will have no incentive to
implement it. Chicken and egg. Servers are the chickens on this one.

> I'm just hesitant even to make it recommended at this point, as I'm
> convinced it's mature enough. Pubsub seems mature at this point, but
> PEP? I'm not sold yet. Only 8 weeks ago we were debating dropping it
> folding it into PubSub or something else. 

No we were not. We talked about restructuring how PEP was documented,
which I have done. Follow the links from here for details:


> If everyone runs out and implements PEP (which will likley happen if
> it's put in there) and then we discover issues with the spec, then
> issues can't really be addressed as the deployed base is too large. 

We've had consensus on PEP since the XMPP devcon in August 2006. It
hasn't changed significantly since then. PEP has been stable since last
September. All we're doing now is rearranging the documentation a bit
and clarifying the disco#info features.

And we're only saying it's RECOMMENDED for servers in 2008 rather than
REQUIRED (though it may change to REQUIRED in 2009).

Given the foregoing, I am having a hard time understanding the


Peter Saint-Andre
XMPP Standards Foundation

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