[Council] Minutes 2010-03-09

Kevin Smith kevin at kismith.co.uk
Thu Mar 10 03:59:29 CST 2011


Minutes of XMPP Council meeting, held 2010-03-09

Due to server disk space issues, the usual logs failed, and a (poorly
represented) log is attached at the end of the mail.

1) Roll call
Kevin, Ralph, Nathan and MatthewM present, MatthewW absent.

2) Agenda bashing.
None.

3) XEP-0261 (Jingle IBB) - Last Call on version 0.6?
Yes from Kevin, Ralph, Nathan and Matthew. MatthewW to vote onlist
within a fortnight

4) Date of next meeting
2010-03-16 1600 GMT

5) Any other business.
Peter reports that -220 and -178 need finishing up. Dave Cridland
volunteers to provide text for 'dialback without dialback' for -220.

Kev urges everyone to try to get appropriate projects to volunteer
ideas for GSoC.

Fini.

Log:

greetings stpeter @ 15:57	

*waves* linuxwolf @ 15:57	

*quickly gets some tea* stpeter @ 15:58
or not so quickly :) 16:00

4pm! Kev @ 16:00	

9am! linuxwolf @ 16:00	

Fibs. Kev @ 16:00	

(-: linuxwolf @ 16:00	
ralphm has entered the room as a moderator. 16:00	

*is having fun with timezones lately* linuxwolf @ 16:00	

Hi Ralph. Kev @ 16:00	

17:00 ralphm @ 16:00	

!agenda Kev @ 16:00	

Kev: 1) Roll call
2) Agenda bashing
3) XEP-0261 (Jingle IBB) - Last Call on version 0.6?
4) Date of next meeting
5) Any other business
Fini Kanchil+ @ 16:00	

!agendaup 0 Kev @ 16:01	

Kev: 1) Roll call Kanchil+ @ 16:01	

I'm here. Kev @ 16:01	

Kanchil+ rocks stpeter @ 16:01	

linuxwolf asks, I deliver. Kev @ 16:01	

heh stpeter @ 16:01	

haha linuxwolf @ 16:01
eeexcellllent 16:01

I'll assume that't Matt and Ralph saying they're here :) Kev @ 16:01	

also, it must be nice having free time for these )-: linuxwolf @ 16:01	

I don't know about Matt, but Fritzy sent apologies, much traveling
will be going on at the moment or imminently. Kev @ 16:02
Fritzy and dwd have entered the room 16:02	

But he's here anyway. Kev @ 16:02
Kudos. 16:02

Yup. Fritzy @ 16:02
Made it. 16:02

ince linuxwolf @ 16:02
nice 16:02

impressive stpeter @ 16:02	

!agendaup Kev @ 16:02	

Kev: 2) Agenda bashing Kanchil+ @ 16:02	

Anyone? Kev @ 16:02	

nothing from me linuxwolf @ 16:02	

not it Fritzy @ 16:02	

*looks at stpeter* Kev @ 16:03	

seems fine ralphm @ 16:03	

nope stpeter @ 16:03	

Blimey. Kev @ 16:03	

not this time :) stpeter @ 16:03	

!agendaup Kev @ 16:03	

Kev: 3) XEP-0261 (Jingle IBB) - Last Call on version 0.6? Kanchil+ @ 16:03	

big enough last week. :) Fritzy @ 16:03	

I like Last Calling things, go for it. Kev @ 16:03	

*glances at http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-roadmap/* stpeter @ 16:03	

(I was hoping someone would have agenda bashing, so I could
!agendaappend, personally) Kev @ 16:03

heh stpeter @ 16:03	

(-: linuxwolf @ 16:03	

+1 ralphm @ 16:04	

Can you add a discussion of the new councilbot to the agenda, please?
dwd @ 16:04

!agendaappend Discuss Swiftob (Kanchil+) being AWESOME. Kev @ 16:04	

Kev: Done. Kanchil+ @ 16:04	

that's all the discussion we need. ;) Fritzy @ 16:04	

BTW we need to finish off the dialback spec (XEP-0220) stpeter @ 16:04
it's still Experiment (!) 16:04
+al 16:04
but that's AOB :) 16:05

So an opinion on last call from Matt/Nathan? Kev @ 16:05	

+1 linuxwolf @ 16:05	

+1 yup yup yup uh-huh uh-huh Fritzy @ 16:05	

(that's last call on XEP 261, Jingle IBB) stpeter @ 16:05	

right Fritzy @ 16:05	

!agendaup Kev @ 16:05	

Kev: 4) Discuss Swiftob (Kanchil+) being AWESOME. Kanchil+ @ 16:05	

(as you can see I'm trying to finish off all the file transfer stuff)
stpeter @ 16:05

-1 ralphm @ 16:06	

heh stpeter @ 16:06	

Note how it cleverly put it in the right place in the agenda, ahead of
Any Other Business, and Date of Next Meeting. Kev @ 16:06
ralphm: As the youth of today would have it: Fail. 16:06

indeed stpeter @ 16:06	

!agendaup Kev @ 16:06	

Kev: 5) Date of next meeting Kanchil+ @ 16:06	

-0, too pretentious (-: linuxwolf @ 16:06	

Same time next week, viewers? Kev @ 16:07	

same bat-time Fritzy @ 16:07
same bat-channel 16:07

na na na na na na na na linuxwolf @ 16:07	

Does it time the meetings and complain if they run over ten minutes?
dwd @ 16:07

sure linuxwolf @ 16:07	

I'll join you next week from a castle in Italy. Fritzy @ 16:07	

Fritzy: most excellent stpeter @ 16:07	

Fritzy: Yay. Kev @ 16:07
dwd: No, I do that, and it's 30 minutes. 16:07

that would be ostentatious of it linuxwolf @ 16:07	

UK daylight saving isn't for another couple of weeks, but we'll have
to remember DST having a play in our times at some point. Kev @ 16:08
!agendaup 16:08

Kev: 6) Any other business Kanchil+ @ 16:08	

oh, right linuxwolf @ 16:08
ugh 16:08

as to AOB, we need to finish up work on dialback (220) and certificate
auth (178) stpeter @ 16:08

I have, on my todo list, "describing dialback without dialback
properly somewhere". dwd @ 16:09

we had feedback about those back in October or November stpeter @ 16:09	

Should that explanation be in XEP-0220? dwd @ 16:09	

high time to incorporate the feedback :) stpeter @ 16:09	

yeah Fritzy @ 16:09	

dwd: perhaps in an informational document? not sure stpeter @ 16:09
perhaps you could at least write up a message to the list about it 16:09
and perhaps we can put it in 220 16:09
I'll catch up on those threads / update documents before the Prague
IETF meeting 16:10

I'd have thought DwD was simple enough to put in 220. Kev @ 16:10	

You're calling dwd simple? That's not nice. Fritzy @ 16:10	

It's also cunningly specified by its absence in XEP-0220. dwd @ 16:10	

Fritzy: Oh, did I? What an unfortunate accident. Kev @ 16:10	

(-: linuxwolf @ 16:11	

Clearly I was refering to the spec he named after himself, not him :)
Kev @ 16:11

wouldn't that be D/woD? linuxwolf @ 16:12
(-: 16:12

Do 220 / 178 need further discussion? Kev @ 16:12	

GSoC? stpeter @ 16:12
Kev: no 16:12

bear's submitted the org application ready for Friday. Kev @ 16:12	

I didn't name it dwd. That was Fippo. dwd @ 16:12	

We have an upsetting lack of ideas at the moment. I was at least
expecting Prosody to join in. Kev @ 16:12

*is now going to associate dialback with "Dave Cridland"...* linuxwolf @ 16:13	

Bear has asked me to propose some work for Friday. I'll get back to
him tomorrow on that. Fritzy @ 16:13

I see Jehan has just sent a Wall Of Text to the list on the subject,
but I've not read it yet. Kev @ 16:13

:) stpeter @ 16:14	

Anyway, please get your favourite projects to put up ideas. Kev @ 16:14	

he is having trouble with the wiki - it won't let him login bear @ 16:14	

But he wants to work on v/voip. dwd @ 16:14
Or wants someone else to. 16:14

Fortunate there's a Swift project proposal for vvoip already, then. Kev @ 16:14	

bear: messages out of channel Fritzy @ 16:15	

It's fine for people to put up arbitrary ideas, but unless they're
already a dev on the project in question (or cajole one into offering
to mentor it), the proposal's not going to be much use. Kev @ 16:15

/nod linuxwolf @ 16:15	

And we had one student ask about (afaict) starting a new XMPP project
for GSoC, which we've thought was a Bad Idea in recent years. Kev @
16:16
I don't remember if it was me that instituted this being a Bad Idea,
but I do generally agree with it. 16:16

heh linuxwolf @ 16:16
well, they need a mentor, and who's going to mentor a new project? 16:16

right stpeter @ 16:16	

Well, I did for Tobias a few years ago. Kev @ 16:16
And the project didn't go anywhere after GSoC. 16:17

Tobias is special. dwd @ 16:17	

Yes. Kev @ 16:17	

he is stpeter @ 16:17	

heh linuxwolf @ 16:17	

Kev: hey..at least it has one user that's happy :) Tobias @ 16:17	

But in general, starting new projects doesn't really meet the
objectives of either improving existing software, or bringing in new
devs to our projects. Kev @ 16:17

does "myself" count? (-: linuxwolf @ 16:17	

Tobias: And that's all that matters :) Kev @ 16:17	

Kev: true linuxwolf @ 16:18	

Kev: yup..especially if that one user isn't me :P Tobias @ 16:18	

I'll put something together for SleekXMPP -- cert checking and
incorporating dwd's suelta lib Fritzy @ 16:18
probably 16:18

Oooh. I could [help] mentor that one. dwd @ 16:18	

yeah Fritzy @ 16:18	

I'm imagining we'll do what we usually do, if we get accepted as an
org, and get the student proposals in, then add Council/Board as
mentors to Melange so they can vote, and get feedback and possibly
votes from possible mentors. Kev @ 16:18

but yeah...contributing to existing projects is way more useful,
especially from the learning perspective Tobias @ 16:18

Tobias: Right. Not that your data forms stuff was a disaster as a
project, but I think we want to steer away from new projects in the
future. Kev @ 16:19
So, anyway. 16:19
I don't think there's more to say about GSoC unless anyone (bear?)
wants to. 16:19

Kev: yeah..in retrospect the projects where i contributed to Psi and
Pidgin have been more fun and I learned a lot more new and old stuff
Tobias @ 16:20

no, just wanted project ideas (the lack of) to be raised bear @ 16:20	

Tobias: That's genuinely useful to hear, thanks. Kev @ 16:20
bear: Duly noted :) 16:20
Ok then, 16:20
!agendaup 0 16:20

Kev: 6) Any other business Kanchil+ @ 16:20	

Actually, a prototype/demonstrator of new technology could be
interesting, but I don't think we have a XEP in that situation. dwd @
16:20

I'll assume that's a no :) Kev @ 16:21	

nope Fritzy @ 16:21	

I've got nothing this week linuxwolf @ 16:21
maybe next week (-: 16:21
no promises though 16:22

dwd: Interesting, but not a good GSoC project unless it's adding to an
existing softwares, I think. Kev @ 16:22

!agenda linuxwolf @ 16:22	

!agenda Kev @ 16:22	

Kev: 1) Roll call
2) Agenda bashing
3) XEP-0261 (Jingle IBB) - Last Call on version 0.6?
4) Discuss Swiftob (Kanchil+) being AWESOME.
5) Date of next meeting
6) Any other business
Fini Kanchil+ @ 16:22	

!llama Fritzy @ 16:22	

bah linuxwolf @ 16:22	

Kev, Most prototype/demonstrator stuff is best added onto something,
yes. Like Tobias's (very useful) 198 in Psi. dwd @ 16:22

it's picky! linuxwolf @ 16:22	

!kick Kev Fritzy @ 16:22	

!rewrite_yourself_in_a_sensible_scripting_langauge dwd @ 16:23	

I got called away. Did i miss anything after 4.? ralphm @ 16:23	

linuxwolf: In Git, !agenda works for anyone now. I need to add more
fine-grained ACL (based on room roles, not just bot roles) Kev @ 16:23
ralphm: no. 16:23

Kev: hop to it! linuxwolf @ 16:23	

Ok, thanks all Kev @ 16:23
*bangs the gavel* 16:23
And for Fritzy... 16:23

*waves* linuxwolf @ 16:23	
linuxwolf has left the room. 16:23	

*ducks.* Fritzy @ 16:24	

!eval swiftob_register_command("kick", "Anyone", "For Fritzy",
function(command, params, message) swiftob_reply_to(message, "No,
won't") end) Kev @ 16:24

Kev: done Kanchil+ @ 16:24	

!kick Fritzy Kev @ 16:24	

Kev: No, won't Kanchil+ @ 16:24	

ha! Fritzy @ 16:24
slick! 16:24

!kick foo dwd @ 16:24	

dwd: No, won't Kanchil+ @ 16:24	

that's pretty neat. Fritzy @ 16:24	

Spiffy. dwd @ 16:25	

ok, got to go! Fritzy @ 16:25
ciao 16:25
Fritzy has left the room. 16:25	

Or, as I wrote for Peter the other day, to help with his inbox: Kev @ 16:25
!answermymail 16:25

Kev: Dear Sir, No. Love Peter Kanchil+ @ 16:25	

As well as !eval, it's got !evalr (with result) Kev @ 16:25
!evalr return 42 + 42 * 42 16:26

Kev: 1806 Kanchil+ @ 16:26	

Which is also vaguely fun. Kev @ 16:26	

!evalr dwd @ 16:26
Meany. 16:26

It also has ACL so that people other than me can't run arbitrary code
on my host. Kev @ 16:27
I guess I *could* create an !evalsandbox and not load the standard
functions into it. 16:27


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