[jadmin] Scalability - Commercial solution the only way (?)

Paolo Perazzo paolo_perazzo at hotmail.com
Wed Oct 12 02:46:14 CDT 2005

Hi Peter,

thanks for your answer. I agree w/ what you said in general and in 
particular w/ the spirit of open source development. Just got excited about 
the whole idea :).

Best regards,

>From: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter at jabber.org>
>Reply-To: Jabber server administration list <jadmin at jabber.org>
>To: Jabber server administration list <jadmin at jabber.org>
>Subject: Re: [jadmin] Scalability - Commercial solution the only way (?)
>Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:21:08 -0600
>Paolo Perazzo wrote:
>>my understanding is that if you wanna have a very scalable solution, MSN, 
>>Yahoo, AIM like to support millions of users, the only solution today is 
>>going through a commercial solution. Ejabberd seems to be the closest open 
>>source solution, but still not ready for that probably (again, correct me 
>>if i'm wrong)
>Very few organizations need to support millions of users. And those who do 
>tend to have the money to either build their own solution (cf. Google) or 
>purchase a commercial solution (e.g., really big ISPs). Also, do you mean 
>millions of registered users or millions of concurrent users? In my 
>experience, usually only 2% or perhaps 5% of registered users are online at 
>any one time, which means that even fewer organizations need to support 
>millions of concurrent users. I suppose only AOL, MSN, Yahoo, and Google -- 
>do you work for one of those? ;-)
>>- Do you have any suggestion for commercial solutions that can scale that 
>The only commercial solution I know of that will perhaps scale that high is 
>Jabber XCP (from Jabber Inc.), which has been deployed at large service 
>providers like Orange, Wanadoo, and BellSouth.
>>- Do you know btw what google talk is based on? They talk about jabber 
>>server, but it might be a generic term
>Google wrote their own solution.
>>- Beside "Jabber Server Farming How-To", 
>>http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/Jabber-Server-Farming-HOWTO.html, is 
>>there any effort in the open source community to design a scalable 
>>solution, in terms of software and hardware architecture. Is the effort 
>>big or it's just a matter of replicating the servers on multiple machine, 
>>have some load balancing and virtual server functionality in front of it 
>>(I know i'm simplifying) or it's something more complicated? What are the 
>>pieces that are missing today? I think this would be a very interesting 
>>task, from an architectural and design perspective.
>One of the core principles of open-source development is that most projects 
>are started by someone who wants to "scratch an itch" or solve a problem 
>that is personally important. While it may be architecturally "interesting" 
>to design and implement a massively scalable IM server solution, this has 
>never really been an itch that any Jabber developer or team has urgently 
>needed to scratch, or even (with all due respect to Jer, Rob Norris, Alexey 
>Shchepin, etc.) been able to scratch -- partly because it's hard to design 
>a massively scalable XML router (hint: it would probably help to have quite 
>a bit of Unix kernel development experience), partly because to really test 
>such a solution you'd need access to the kind of big hardware that your 
>average open-source developer does not have access to, and partly because 
>designing massively scalable servers is something that is usually a 
>corporate objective and not a personal objective.
>I'm not discouraging you from starting such a project or joining an 
>existing effort that has a chance to create a massively scalable 
>open-source solution (e.g., ejabberd or Jive's Pampero). But IMHO you'd to 
>better to get involved with one of those projects than for us to talk about 
>it on this list. :-)
>>- Do we know how the big guys are implementing their scalable solutions?
>By "big guys" do you mean AOL, MSN, and Yahoo? I don't know much about 
>their implementations / deployments, but I understand they have lots of 
>Peter Saint-Andre
>Jabber Software Foundation

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