[Foundation] Motion for Last Call - Chat State Notifications (JEP-0085)

Alexander Gnauck gnauck at myjabber.net
Thu Dec 4 10:57:11 CST 2003


Hi,

i see no use for JEP-0085. The most existing clients already support
JEP-0022(message events). And that works very well so far. Im not
interested to change our client and add JEP-0085. Instead of this we
should work and move forward with JEP-0022.

Alex

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: members-admin at jabber.org 
> [mailto:members-admin at jabber.org] Im Auftrag von Sebastiaan Deckers
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. Dezember 2003 16:58
> An: members at jabber.org
> Cc: standards-jig at jabber.org
> Betreff: Re: [Foundation] Motion for Last Call - Chat State 
> Notifications (JEP-0085)
> 
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I recently implemented both jabber:x:event and chatstates 
> while working 
> on the conversation dialog of my client.
> Here is a list with pros and cons of each protocol, as seen by your 
> humble servant.
> 
> Chatstates
> + Straightforward design
> + Ridiculously easy to implement (~60 minutes in my case) 
> Introduces new 
> + conversation modes besides composing: active, inactive,
> gone
> +/- Works complementary to jabber:x:events offline/displayed/delivered
> - Can be tricky to coexist with jabber:x:events for 
> composing.  The JEP 
> could use some implementation notes on how to do this properly.
> - Why does this use <message/> instead of <presence/> or even <iq/>?
> (Note: I did not look at the thread handling as my client 
> does not use 
> threads in its display.)
> 
> jabber:x:events
> + De facto standard
> + Widely supported (I implemented it how many years ago??)
> - Composing does not "belong" in the same namespace as delivered and 
> displayed
> - Yucky yucky usage of id attribute which has lead to incompatible 
> implementations
> - Limited to composing as the only conversation mode
> 
> Overall I would say that Chatstates is a clear improvement.  However 
> jabber:x:events is still required to handle displayed and delivered 
> events as Chatstates has no provisions for those (but should not have 
> those anyway).
> 
> I hope this may help the decision of the Membership and Council.
> 
> -Sebastiaan
> 
> 
> Julian Missig wrote:
> 
> > Ok, I understand that I suck at writing up JEPs when I 
> should and that
> > I said I would a long time ago, but I still feel that the 
> Chat State 
> > JEP is more complicated than we really need... I'm also rather 
> > disappointed that we have a standard which almost everyone is using 
> > (jabber:x:event) that we're deprecating just as people are 
> finishing 
> > up implementing it. I do think that we could get the things 
> we need by 
> > modifying jabber:x:event rather than creating a whole new 
> standard and 
> > abandoning jabber:x:event.
> >
> > Julian
> >
> > On 3 Dec, 2003, at 12:20, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 02:16:15PM +1100, Robert Norris wrote:
> >>
> >>> I move that a Last Call be issued for JEP-0085, Chat State 
> >>> Notifications. Seconds?
> >>
> >>
> >> Just a note (I'm one of the JEP authors, so I won't second it):
> >>
> >> As discussed in yesterday's Council meeting, several 
> Council members 
> >> have mixed feelings about moving forward with this JEP and 
> would like 
> >> to receive feedback from client developers about this, since it is 
> >> intended to replace jabber:x:event (JEP-0022). However, 
> the Council 
> >> figured that the only way to close the circle here would 
> be to hold a 
> >> Last Call on JEP-0085 so that we can have a definitive discussion 
> >> about this on the Standards-JIG list.
> >>
> >> So if you want to have the discussion and reach consensus 
> on whether 
> >> we will move forward to chat state notifications (JEP-0085) or use 
> >> the message events protocol (JEP-0022) forever, please second the 
> >> motion. Let's get this figured out and move on.
> >>
> >> Peter
> >
> 
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