[Members] Jabber Community Forum

Ralph Meijer jabberfoundation at ralphm.ik.nu
Tue Nov 28 03:23:24 CST 2006

On Mon, 2006-11-27 at 23:13 -0600, Matt Tucker wrote:
> Peter,
> I'd like to propose a different path for jabber.org. First question --
> what community would a new jabber.org serve? I think a major point of
> the name change is that our community (as in the JSF) has completely
> changed over the past couple of years. Instead of being software
> focused, we're now protocol focused. The software communities have
> generally long departed jabber.org and now live at the psi website, the
> ejabberd website, jivesoftware.org, Google's discussions,  etc. That's
> simply the current reality. I also think a major goal of the name change
> is to decrease confusion around the Jabber vs XMPP terminology.

I think the JSF's focus has always been protocols. For example, the
marketing team never really took off. Sure that community gathered more
around jabber.org at that time.

Protocols are boring to most. The new jabber.org would focus on
higher-than-protocol level information. Potential new users and service
administrators (that haven't yet gotten exposure to specific projects),
managers, etc. I believe there is a lot that can be covered there.
Protocol specific stuff will take place on xmpp.org, product specific
information at the projects' sites. Possibly, jabber.org would be/remain
the umbrella site of the entire community.

> A major new jabber.org launch would:
>  * Further solidify protocol name confusion when we need to be spending
> resources raising awareness around XMPP. Note that the discussion about
> a "user-friendly" name for the protocol (the whole "talk" discussion) is
> different. I'm talking about awareness by the technical community.

I don't agree. The protocol name is now XMPP and we should make that
very clear.
The discussion about a "user-friendly" name was NOT targetted at the
protocol, but rather like 'The Web' is used 'HTTP' based technologies.

I know about your and other's hesitation towards using 'Jabber' because
of Trademark issues, and have thought a lot about that recently.
Basically there are three options:

  * Use 'XMPP' for everything. This is not a sexy name.
  * Think up a new name. This could work, but requires community wide
    for the new name, and significant marketing effort to displace the
    currently recognized 'Jabber'.
  * Use 'Jabber'. This probably requires commoditizing the name.

>  * Skews the "community" towards a small subset of Open Source projects
> that choose to host at code.jabber.org. This doesn't fairly represent
> the purely commercial XMPP implementers. I also don't think
> code.jabber.org is a necessary resource given the ubiquity of
> sourceforge, apache.org, Google's Open Source site, etc, etc.

What? Who says that only code.jabber.org projects would get exposure?
Also, the current site has, for a long time, linked to jabberstudio.org,
while a large amount of the /frontpage/ news mentions mostly commercial

There /is/ a demand for Jabber specific project hosting, and personally
I find all your suggestions for alternatives lacking at best.

> As for my argument that much of the old software community has already
> left jabber.org, it might be helpful to back that up with stats. 
> Community/List          | Messages this month
> ----------------------------------------
> jadmin (jabber.org)     | 95
> jdev (jabber.org)       | 175
> juser (jabber.org)      | 13
> jivesoftware.org forums | 1,511
> psi forums              | 302
> Not only that, jdev is really a list that should move to xmpp.org anyway
> and be for protocol implementors.


> In other words, virtually our entire
> community at jabber.org these days is around the protocol. I know it
> seems hard to "give up" some of what exists on jabber.org right now, but

It is not about that. I just think that Jabber is the best name. It has
awareness, though maybe not enough. And there is no real discussion on
moving most of the protocol stuff elsewhere.

> I don't think there's any reason to milk toast this name change.

I don't know what you mean here.

> My proposal instead is that jabber.org become a one page website that
> contains links to all relevant resources such as xmpp.org, software
> lists for server admins and end users, etc. Keep it simple and focused
> and devote our main efforts to xmpp.org. 

As Peter said, xmpp.org would be the main effort of the JSF, and
jabber.org doesn't need to be. I support and will actively participate
in such an endeavor.



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