[Members] First XSF Certificate Meeting

David Banes dbanes at cleartext.com
Mon May 11 18:48:45 CDT 2009

- Deliberately posted over this message.
- Cross posted to the XSF Board list.

Can I raise a caution flag here as it occurs to me other email, IM or  
messaging platforms don't go this far and in my opinion we should  
avoid doing anything that discourages developers, especially smaller  
innovative types that are often cash poor, from adopting XMPP.

Testing for compliance, and implementing feature sets to comply could  
become very expensive. We wouldn't want to end up in a situation where  
only the Microsoft's and Ciscos of the world can afford to get their  
XMPP solutions certified.

This could mean that the smaller innovative developers get shut out of  
business opportunities even if they may have a 'better' solution.

I've seen this happening whilst running a dev team for Symantec.  
Norton AV often got the big deals based on 'Certifications' when  
smaller companies often had better technology, but couldn't fund  
compliance testing and R&D.

We might also consider who would be managing and policing such a  
scheme, this in itself will be expensive as XMPP becomes more popular.

This said, I fully support the current scheme as a voluntary opt in.

Food for thought.

Best regards,

David Banes
Director & CEO, Cleartext
Director & Secretary, Internet Industry Association
Director & Chairman, XMPP Standards Foundation
email: dbanes at cleartext.com
xmpp: dbanes at cleartext.com
Tel: +61 2 8001 2600

- Cleartext is Carbon Minimised -

On 12/05/2009, at 7:21 AM, Nathan Fritz wrote:

> XSF Members,
> What: Meeting to start Compliance Certificate process
> Who: the XSF Members
> When: Thursday, May 21st at 1800 GMT
> Where: xmpp:foundation at conference.jabber.org?join
> Quote: "the XSF is useless -- what's the point of compliance levels  
> without compliance certification?!?" -PSA
> A couple of years ago, the Council started creating yearly XMPP  
> Client/Server Compliance levels as XEPs (XEP-0211, XEP-0212,  
> XEP-0213, XEP-0216, XEP-0242, XEP-0243) to publish the XSF's  
> expectations for IM servers and clients that claim to be XMPP  
> compliant. While a good first step, these compliance XEPs are  
> worthless without certifications for compliance.  These  
> certifications would not be limited to the Council's compliance  
> XEPs, but could include specific XEPs and RFCs.  This means that we,  
> the XSF Members, will be responsible for determining which XEPs to  
> create certificates for, gathering tests and criteria for a piece of  
> software to pass a certificate, performing the testing (automated  
> and brute force alike), awarding compliance certificates, and  
> maintaining existing certificates.  During next week's meeting we  
> will determine our first set of XEPs to create certificates for,  
> discuss the criteria for awarding certificates in general, and  
> discuss how this should apply to XSF membership.  As one of the  
> action items following this meeting, I will call a vote for the XSF  
> members to determine whether we should have a process for awarding  
> compliance certificates.
> In the meantime, please think about what XEPs we should initially  
> offer as certificates.  I propose that XEP-0242, XEP-0243, XEP-0060,  
> and XEP-0163 should be our initial set of certificates, and I will  
> defend that during the meeting.  Also, think about what tests you  
> can contribute including automated wire tests that you have access  
> to and methods that you use for manually testing features.  We will  
> likely need to make a call out to the greater community for  
> additional automated tests that will help for specific XEPs that we  
> choose to create certificates for.  I personally am working on a  
> large test harness for XEP-0060 that I hope to have finished in time  
> for the San Jose Summit.
> In the end, I hope it will become part of the core responsibilities  
> of the XSF members to develop these certificates, actively test  
> implementations, and award developers for being compliant with  
> specific XEPs.  XMPP software developers should reach out to us to  
> get their products certified and we could reach out to software  
> developers to encourage them to get their servers and clients  
> certified.  They should be able to display their certification  
> proudly on their product pages.
> Thanks,
> Nathan Fritz

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