[Members] New Wiki?

Nicolas Vérité nicolas.verite at gmail.com
Tue Feb 16 09:22:59 CST 2010

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 18:44, Steffen Larsen <zooldk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all you beautiful XMPP members! :-)
> I've been talking with Alexander Gnauk lately about our wiki
> (wiki.xmpp.org), because I needed to update the site about our member bot
> and what kind of features we want in the future for the bot.
> After updating the wiki and talking a bit with Alexander, we came to the
> conclusion that a new wiki could be really nice, because of a lot of bad
> behaviors of the old one (difficult to add new users, password changes and
> administration in general).
> So I was thinking the other day of the alternatives for a new wiki.
> After using both JIRA, fisheye and confluence at work I was wondering why we
> do not use this scenario as well for our XSF? We already use fisheye as a
> SCM GUI, so for me it looks straight-forward to use confluence as well for
> our new wiki.
> As I see it we to consolidate our communication a bit and structure it and I
> believe that we can obtain that by moving our media wiki to Atlassian's
> confluence (a more structured wiki).
> With confluence we get an easy administration for users and pages and it
> integrates very well with other kinds of software, e.g. Fisheye, JIRA and
> all other open social gadget based platforms.  I do not know if we have any
> issue tracking back-end yet, otherwise we could use JIRA as well to keep
> track of who is doing what (assign tasks to people instead of just emails
> flowing around) and even our XML/XSD protocol documents (XEPs). In that way
> our internal pages could be coupled together with the documents we are
> working on. We can even define our own work flow if we want.
> I have used a couple of days to setup Confluence locally as our wiki and it
> seems very nice and simple for us to use if we want to have it instead of
> media wiki. So what do you guys think of the idea?
> I also have some questions for you guys that have a longer relationship with
> the current wiki.. what is the current wiki used for?.. As I see it we use
> it as an intranet for swapping XMPP ideas, consolidating dates, meetings,
> future roadmaps etc? Am I correct? on the current wiki there is also some
> links for XMPP servers and clients, but why is this needed if they are
> already presented on the normal page of www.xmpp.org? I would also like to
> see the new wiki as a starting place for new members (like my self) to get
> an introduction about the structure of XMPP, the different teams etc. So all
> the stuff on the www.xmpp.org is the public stuff about the XMPP protocol
> and the wiki.xmpp.org is for the collaborating members.
> To get back to the facts about confluence:
> * We an get it for free, because we are an non-profix organization, which is
> nice. :-)
> * To install it on our servers we need an application server or servlet
> container (like tomcat or jboss etc) and a mysql for database storage.
> * If we have a LDAP of all the XMPP members we can use this ni confluence
> for users, passwords and access rights. So we would also be able to split
> the different teams with different access and rights.
> * We can import our current media wiki if we want to.. there is a plugin for
> this..
> Some links:
> http://www.atlassian.com/software/confluence/
> http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/
> By the way I am in no way associated with Atlassian, just a daily user of
> their software. ha ha!
> What do you guys think?.. Shall I continue my work and present a workable
> demo of it in the coming weeks (I'll send a link later on)?.. I would also
> gladly help by installing the software on the servers if the members think
> its a good idea.

If you need to collaboratively edit a requirements document for
memberbot, please search and edit an exsting one, or create a new one.
There was this old page, I had erased the content (still available in
'history'), and added stuff, before I realised you've created one:
We now have two pages...

Why would we need an alternative to our wiki? If there are real needs,
maybe we could address them with the existing wiki. Please list theme
here: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Wiki_requirements

Whatever the alternative wiki, which we eventually would chose with
much endless and exhausting geeks discussions, we have no guarantee
this would fill better our understood/said/written needs and/or
requirements (getting more contributions may not be forcefully one of
those). Changing again and again our tools and websites is definitely
not the way to go, especially proprietary software, with a migration
path in, but not out (supposing the way in has not trouble). Apart
from that consideration, everybody knows Wikipedia thus Mediawiki, the
other two mentionned in this thread are only know by elite, if not
niche users, and that would be a huge barrier to contributions. If
people are considering helping an supposed wiki migration, why not
considering contributing to the existing one?

If there's too much "Applications", then maybe we could use a
namespace for these, in order not to "pollute" the other content. And
maybe also that namespace shoud not be "Applications" since in a
software world, it also means something else.

The best idea for now, besides writing clear requirements, would be to
clean out the old and useless content. By clean out, I mean putting
for example old content in a separated namespace, like "Obsolete", and
not just delete it and lose it forever (or let Google/Bing do our
backups for us).

With Applications and Obsolete, we have a clean wiki. We can then
rework the home page: http://wiki.xmpp.org/ Then, as for any collab
tool, we could write some small, simple policies. We can also write a
simple and small set of templates and categories, if needed. We can
also migrate from our version 1.13.2 we have now, to a more actual
1.15.1 that is available today. Be also carefull not to duplicate the
website content, which is under rework.

See? We got a lot of things to do and consider before we spend/waste
time on the choice of an alternate wiki, and install/maintain it, with
no better results in the end (what are "better results"?).

The wiki works fine for those who use it. Yes, it could work better,
but then let's enhance it. And see where it goes. As long as I
remember, it has never received much attention...
Nicolas Vérité (Nÿco) mailto:nicolas.verite at gmail.com
Jabber ID : xmpp:nyco at jabber.fr
http://linuxfr.org/ - http://fr.wikipedia.org/ - http://www.jabberfr.org/
http://xmpp.org - http://april.org/  - http://qsos.org/

More information about the Members mailing list