[Standards-JIG] ACTIVE: JEP-0132 (POKE)

miruku at bonbon.net miruku at bonbon.net
Thu Apr 1 18:04:37 UTC 2004

>When speaking of Berkeley and Descarte, you may not forget Sartre, in 
>"Being and nothingness" he clearly points out that by perceiving it in a 
>perception one clearly forms the perception and even the perception of 
>the abscence means it is clearly present.
>So, does this mean a probe for presence must always return true?

as the man noted; "Contrary to the philosophy of Descartes, contrary to
that of Kant, when we say 'I think' we are attaining to ourselves in the
presence of the other, and we are just as certain of the other as we are of
ourselves. Thus the man who discovers himself directly in the cogito also
discovers all the others, and discovers them as the condition of his own
existence. He recognises that he cannot be anything (in the sense in which
one says one is spiritual, or that one is wicked or jealous) unless others
recognise him as such. I cannot obtain any truth whatsoever about myself,
except through the mediation of another. The other is indispensable to my
existence, and equally so to any knowledge I can have of myself."

so to summarise; logically, jabber inherently requires this jep to function
properly, god knows how it's worked for so long already..

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