[Standards-JIG] JEP-45: Revoking room privileges

David Sutton jabber at dsutton.legend.uk.com
Sun Jun 20 22:31:11 UTC 2004


Hi Ian,

  Many of the assumptions were based on keeping to the word of the JEP, although I do admit to being half awake when I 
wrote it, so i'm reviewing again :) 

On Sun, Jun 20, 2004 at 07:48:30PM +0100, Ian Paterson wrote:
> Hi Dave,
> 
> I understand your vision of things, but believe it introduces unnecessary
> functional limitations.
> 
> Clearly there must always be at least one owner. However, I don't believe
> the author of JEP-0045 intended to prevent the ownership privileges of the
> room creator being revoked. There are many situations where a simple
> transfer of responsibility for a room is desirable.
>
Surely a transfer is done by promoting your sucessor and they demoting you in return.  
>
> I also don't understand the need to prevent a user from revoking their own
> ownership privileges. Again, there are scenarios where this would be very
> useful.
>
I can see it both useful and as a hinderance - The 'one owner' rule becomes a stumbling block because you hit situations 
where you are the only owner in a room and want to step down - you are effective banned.  
> 
> I am interested to understand the reasons you would like to add these
> restrictions to JEP-0045 (especially since you are the developer of the most
> important implementation of the JEP).
> 
> Below is an alternative approach that *might* meet your needs. It adds
> functionality to the JEP instead of removing it:
> 
> Perhaps your implementation could be changed to make a specifed System Admin
> the 'creator' of all rooms? The first person to try to enter a non-existent
> room could then be a normal owner (the 'initial' owner currently defined in
> the JEP). The System Admin would appear in the list of owners, but his/her
> ownership privileges could not be revoked by other owners. The ownership
> privileges of the initial owner could be revoked (even by themselves).
>
The only thing to note is that Service Admins are beyond the scope of the JEP. There is/was going to be a JEP for 
Service extensions, but 0045 is still being worked on. 
>
> This would require two new implementation notes to be added to the JEP:
> 1. An implementation MAY specify a list of Service Admins that are owners of
> all rooms.
> 2. An implementation MAY specify a list of Service Admins from whom room
> ownership cannot be revoked within the scope of this JEP.
> 
> The JEP would also need to specify the error message for trying to revoke
> ownership privileges from a Service Admin. (It also needs to specify the
> error for trying to revoke ownership privileges from the only owner).
> 
> Could this help?
>
I'm going to have to look more into this, as I can see benefits to both approaches 
>
> Regards,
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
Regards,

  David

> David Sutton wrote:
> >    I spent part of this morning re-reading the JEP and trying to fit the
> > different parts together. I think I now have an idea of how everything
> > is meant to work, or at least this is my vision of things.
> >
> >    The room 'creator' is a room owner who is responsible for the room.
> > There must always be an owner in the room to fulfull that
> > responsibility, fulfilling the 'permanent owner' requirement. The JEP
> > also permits for owners to demote other owners. To this end, what I
> > propose is that an owner can demote any other owner to admin, but not
> > themself. This will ensure that there is always one owner at all times.
> > For MU-Conference, in the case where a Service Admin demotes the last
> > owner, the Service Admin is considered the room 'creator'.
> >
> > Your thoughts?
> 
> 
> > Ian Paterson wrote:
> > >>  The issue is that the JEP states that you are unable to modify
> > >>information of a user who is the same level or higher than you.
> > >>Thus an owner can change an admin to none, but an owner
> > >>can't modify another owner.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I reread all the relevant parts of the JEP but I couldn't find
> > the section
> > > you are refering to (only restrictions on changing the 'role'
> > of an 'admin'
> > > or 'owner'). Could you please point it out to me.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>  9.4 does contradict this (unless you get into the MU-Conference
> > >>creator metalevel or Service Admin concepts)
> > >>
> > >>Regards,
> > >>
> > >>  David
> > >>
> > >>On Sat, Jun 12, 2004 at 12:29:37PM +0100, Ian Paterson wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>The table in section 5.2.2 of JEP-45 "Changing Affiliations" appears to
> > >>>suggest that it is not possible ("n/a") to change 'owner' or 'admin'
> > >>>privileges to 'none' with a single request.
> > >>>
> > >>>However, section 9.4 seems to contradict this. It says: "An
> > >>
> > >>owner may want
> > >>
> > >>>to revoke a user's ownership privileges; this is done by
> > >>
> > >>changing the user's
> > >>
> > >>>affiliation to "admin" or lower (e.g., 'none')" Section 9.7
> > >>
> > >>says something
> > >>
> > >>>similar for Revoking Administrative Privileges. Examples 154 and 155
> > >>>illustrate how to change a user's 'admin' privileges to 'none'.
> > >>>
> > >>>Is there any reason to prevent an admin or owner having all privileges
> > >>>removed by another owner (affiliations='none')?
> > >>>
> > >>>- Ian
> > >>>
> > >>>_______________________________________________
> > >>>Standards-JIG mailing list
> > >>>Standards-JIG at jabber.org
> > >>>https://jabberstudio.org/mailman/listinfo/standards-jig
> > >>
> > >>--
> > >>David Sutton
> > >>Email: dsutton at legend.co.uk
> > >>Jabber: peregrine at legend.net.uk
> > >>_______________________________________________
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> > >>Standards-JIG at jabber.org
> > >>https://jabberstudio.org/mailman/listinfo/standards-jig
> > >>
> > >
> > >
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-- 
David Sutton
Email: dsutton at legend.co.uk
Jabber: peregrine at legend.net.uk



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