[Standards-JIG] proto-JEP: Smart Presence Distribution

Michal vorner Vaner michal.vaner at kdemail.net
Wed May 17 17:37:49 UTC 2006

On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 06:52:44PM +0200, Philipp Hancke wrote:
> Jean-Louis Seguineau wrote:
> >>which is what we do. We only use the roster instead of negotiating a
> >>list. This assumes that the roster is synchronized between
> >>the two servers of course.
> >
> >
> >This 'of course' is the important bit, of course.
> Of course it is ;-)
> I was assuming that xmpp-im was taking care of that, but it seemingly
> does not (e.g. what if a unsubscribed stanza bounces because a hostname
> is temporarly unavailable).
> Quick thought:
> include a 'roster serial', e.g.
> <presence from='romeo at capulet/inlove>
>    <x xmlns='jabber:iq:roster:serial:whatever' version='2006051705'>
> </presence>
> (serial format YYYYMMDD##)
> That might also be handy for roster retrieval on c2s.
> If the receiving server notices a serial mismatch a resync is
> needed.
> >>How are you going to negotiate that list without disclosing
> >>parts of your privacy list to the remote server?
> >
> >
> >By not including a particular address on the list for presence-out, and
> >blocking for presence-in, why?
> What I was talking about...
> lets assume Romeo wants to send presence to everyone but Gregory using
> 's44sdasb4444dedd at multicast.capulet' as a relay.
> How is he going to tell multicast.capulet to create a distribution list
> that includes everyone on his roster less those people that are
> on his presence-out list without telling multicast.capulet who is
> on his presence-out list? (assuming that multicast.capulet is also
> operated by the evil capulets who know who of the capulets is on romeos
> roster).

So instead, you want every server or client to take care of creating and
keeping these multicast beasts in sync. This asumes that each side
knows, how the multicast list looks like, each one keeping a cache. You
need the traffic to keep them in sync instead of the presences and make
id difficult.

And another thing, what if capulets does not have an antivirus, their
server gets attacked by a virus, so they just erase it all and start
again. Montaque server just nicely things they have the list and send
presences and poor Juliet does not know Romeo is waiting for her to

> On the other hand, the evil capulets can already guess that Romeo
> has blocked Gregory if they see successive presence stanzas to
> Juliet, Nurse, Peter, Sampson, Anthony and Potpan but not Gregory.
> > I am just saying this breaks section 9.1.1 of RFC3920 for s2s
> Yes, it does. It uses the semantics for c2s presence stanzas without
> 'to', i.e. "distribute it on my behalf".
> Support for xmpp-heresy needs to be negotiated of course.


Work with computer has 2 phases. First, computer waits for the user to tell it what 
to do, then the user waits for the computer to do it. Therefore, computer work 
consists mostly of waiting.

Michal "vorner" Vaner
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