[Standards] XEP-0115 is harmful and should be deferred

Tomasz Sterna tomek at xiaoka.com
Thu Jul 5 21:34:10 UTC 2007

Dnia 04-07-2007, śro o godzinie 21:03 -0600, Peter Saint-Andre
> > base64(sha1(dave-formatted id/features))
> Seems reasonable to me. 

I've picked this random post to reply but it does not concern this
particular post but the whole thread...
...which I did not follow really, because I find this whole XEP and
concept of entity capabilities distributed with presence packed unneeded
and harmful.

This XEP came out to solve a problem of jabber:iq:version storming on
the Psi client launch, which other clients blindly copied just to
show-off the remote client version at the fancy tooltip.

So instead of pull-based mechanizm there was a push-based mechanizm

But I do see some inconsistency here.
We don't allow vCard hashes to be pushed with the presence. We do not
allow moods and "now-playing" to be pushed on us with the presence
packet, but we gladly allow unrequested capabilities to be pushed with
the presence?? More then, we're going to REQUIRE them?

Excuse me. I've subscribed your PRESENCE information. I didn't ask for
your mood, tune, avatar nor capabilities. If I would need them, I will
ask and you may allow me to have them.
There's nothing special about the caps, that these would require special

And what's more - we invented a way for me to subscribe for all this
kinds of additional information. Using everyone's favorite PubSub.
Why don't we reuse it somehow?

We didn't have PEP/PubSub deployed at all when we invented XEP-0115, but
we do have now and for sure can do better now.

Tomasz Sterna
Xiaoka Grp.  http://www.xiaoka.com/

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