[Standards] Council Minutes 2019-12-04

Tedd Sterr teddsterr at outlook.com
Wed Dec 11 00:52:17 UTC 2019


Jonas is sick and would prefer someone else chairs - Dave, glad to be free of chairing, volunteers.

1) Roll Call
Present: Jonas, Zash, Dave, Daniel
Apologies: Georg

2) Agenda Bashing
Dave has no idea of what's going on and asks if there's anything to vote on - Daniel would like to vote on accepting Reactions as Experimental.

3) Proposed XMPP Extension: Message Reactions - https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/reactions.html
Dave notes this is unchanged since being rejected by the previous Council, and wants to avoid setting a precedent where an XEP is re-submitted unchanged until one Council eventually accepts it.
Jonas mentions that the authors of Reactions are unhappy with the Message Fastening proposal and their concerns don't appear to have been addressed. Jonas's own position is that there are still problems with Fastening which haven't been addressed at all (e.g. overlap with attaching), and we still don't have Reactions in our ecosystem; accepting this would allow development of Reactions to continue.
Daniel understands the problems of over-riding a previous Council's decision, but believes the decision was plainly wrong in this case.
Jonas is concerned Reactions will become difficult to change once let out into the wild. And though it wasn't entirely wrong to veto the first time on the promise of a proper base for attaching things, that didn't quite materialise - Fastening had its chance, so let's move on with Reactions.
The whole situation irritates Dave enormously - who originally voted in favour of Reactions. Dave is willing to give a holding vote, and dig into this further - would really love to have Reactions, and a generic method of 'fastening' would be even better.

The author of Message Fastening, Kev, is unclear on what needs to be fixed, but is happy to do so - the original offer of doing the necessary work on Reactions still stands. Jonas thinks replying to the on-list feedback would be a good start, especially as Reactions' authors feel their feedback was unheard - Kev thinks that all got missed when it coincided with his holiday.

Daniel isn't sure voting is the most important thing here, rather figuring out the situation. Dave will commit to re-reviewing Fastening, Reactions, and the feedback - looks forward to Kev's on-list comments in response to the feedback.
Daniel feels that doing Fastening the Right Way (with proper MAM retrieval) will take years, so it's good to get started on Fastening, but doesn't think Reactions should be blocked by that.

Jonas: +0
Dave: -1 (previous Council's recommendations have been ignored)
Daniel: +1
Zash: [on-list]
Georg: [pending]

4) Next Meeting
2019-12-11 1600 UTC

5) AOB
Dave has resurrected the Spreadsheet of Doom [1] and is willing to give edit access to all who need it (Google account required); will endeavour (but not promise) to keep it up-to-date.

6) Close
Thanks all

[1] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ANu9KGmNf2r-qpLYqF7NdJTtqA1GIu55rf2deKbM0GA

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