[Standards] Council Minutes 2019-11-06

Tedd Sterr teddsterr at outlook.com
Wed Nov 13 14:29:32 UTC 2019


1) Roll Call
Present: Kev, Jonas, Georg, Dave, Link

2) Agenda Bashing
Dave thinks there's only advancing XEP-0423 to Draft - Georg has two related points.

3a) Demote XEP-0392 (Consistent Color Generation) from "Advanced IM Client" into "Future Development"
Georg says he was heavily criticised for adding it because Council is not competent in UX, and it's not 'ready' yet, and for other reasons.
Jonas says to just remove it then, if that's what (the loud part of) the community wants. Dave thinks removing it would be the path of least contention, given the wailing in the community. Link thinks it should be removed, and it can be added back once it's clear it works properly. Kev doesn't think it belongs there at the moment.
Georg says XEP-0245 (The /me Command) is also clearly guiding UI design, though nobody objected to that (beyond its wire format.) Dave sees potential UX issues in almost all things, but would rather the Compliance Suites matched some kind of community consensus.
Kev thinks this looks like agreement; Dave considers it a rough consensus.
Georg brandishes PR #851.

3b) Could XEP-0423 be advanced to Draft, if Georg promises to push the changes tomorrow?
Georg says most of these changes are already in #851, minus an update to "Changes since 2019" which can be fixed once a consensus is reached.
Dave finds this problematic, and is against it unless there are some very persuasive arguments he hasn't thought of. Jonas also doesn't feel good about pre-voting.
Kev would be happy to advance once his feedback has been addressed - Georg says it has been.
Georg says that if the formal vote starts today, a decision can be made right before this Council session ends (in two weeks.) Dave asks whether Georg can get everything merged by tomorrow - Georg directs Dave to ask an Editor - Jonas thinks it's possible, as long as it's finished tonight. Georg will take Council feedback and update the PR. Jonas suggests holding an irregular Council meeting tomorrow - Dave was thinking similarly.

In review of PR #851, Kev feels the addition of XEP-0077 (In-Band Registration) is wrong, and XEP-0357 (Push Notifications) is problematic as long-lasting background connections aren't guaranteed on mobile.
Jonas thinks IBR is very right to include; as does Link, maybe excluding account registration (but allowing users to change their password is a must.)
Kev thinks including IBR is wrong because it pre-supposes that everything is exposed to the Internet - Jonas and Georg say it can be supported without being enabled by default - Kev doesn't think that requiring things which are only of interest to (some) Internet deployments is right here. Jonas suggests moving XEP-0077 into 'Advanced' only.

Dave checks whether everyone can make a meeting tomorrow at 1600 UTC, and whether CS-2020 would be ready for a vote by then? Link, Jonas, Georg, and Kev acquiesce. Dave moves to adjourn the formal Council Meeting until tomorrow, but everyone is free to continue the discussion. Kev thinks it's worthwhile to thrash this out now, otherwise the vote tomorrow will be on something not yet ready - approval should ideally be a formality by then; Dave agrees.

Dave thinks IBR is useful for account creation and changing passwords, but is undesirable or impossible for some deployments. Jonas says deployments are free to disable software features; CS is for software, not deployments - Georg agrees, and has been thinking about a "Deployment" category somewhere. Dave adds that the CS is also for expectations, e.g. could a client find itself reliant on XEP-0077 and unable to function without it - Georg doesn't see such a dependency and can't imagine a client that only works if used to register a new account.

Jonas is hoping to make a clean getaway; Kev suggests Dave officially close the meeting; Link thought it already had been.

99) Close [ajar]
Date of next: 2019-11-07 1600 UTC

Georg will ping Editors with the finished PR.

The IBR discussion is ongoing…

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