[Standards] Council Minutes 2020-06-17

Tedd Sterr teddsterr at outlook.com
Mon Jun 22 17:06:53 UTC 2020


1) Roll Call
Present: Daniel, Georg, Zash, Jonas, Dave

2) Agenda Bashing
No modifications.

3) Editor's Update
* Calls in progress
  - LC for XEP-0338 (ends on 2020-06-30)

4a) PR #959 (XEP-0156: reorganize stating XRD/JRD requirements) - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/959
Jonas notes that this PR has been amended to address Council feedback from last week.
Jonas thinks the changes improve the wording and could even count as editorial. Dave thinks it might be clearer if line 222 were to read "It is additionally possible to use an alternative JSON format …"

Jonas: +1
Zash: +1
Dave: +1
Georg: +1
Daniel: +1

4b) PR #961 (XEP-0030: Specify that the disco#info feature may not be explicitly set) - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/961
Given this is a follow-up to the previously rejected PR #715, Jonas still wonders what it actually improves, and thinks the bar should be rather high for changing normative text in Final XEPs - Dave suggests that it's a bit weird to discover support for service discovery by using service discovery to see if service discovery is supported; and few, if any, of the other XEP examples include this, so making it optional means those become conformant. Jonas understands that it's a bit pointless, but doesn't see how this fixes any real-world problem - Zash agrees with Jonas, and notes that examples aren't normative. Jonas had advocated using commented ellipsis in examples if one worried they were incomplete, even though it seemed obvious because full listings would just be adding noise.
Dave thinks it's just trying to document reality, so it seems fine - Jonas thinks it's only documenting the reality of examples in XEPs, whether it documents reality on the wire remains to be proven. Dave notes that most implementations do return disco#info, if only to ensure there is at least one feature present.

Dave: -1 (for the reasons Jonas raises on the PR)
Georg: [on-list]
Jonas: -1 (unless the author can find real-world issues this PR solves)
Zash: -1 (agree with Jonas and Dave)
Daniel: -1 (agree with Jonas)

Dave could comfortably accept "disco#info MAY be elided if other features are present".
As an side-note, Jonas would prefer if we were explicit about disco#info replies being incomplete in examples, e.g. by using <!-- ... -->.

4c) PR #949 (XEP-0157: Add status-addresses registrar entry) - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/949
Jonas notes this was also raised a few weeks ago (see [1] and [2] for context), but there was discussion about extending the Registry without consent from XEP-0068 (Field Standardization for Data Forms); the validation stuff has been removed from the PR and converted into explicit wording, which Jonas thinks is a reasonable compromise - this would allow moving forward with extending XEP-0068 with validation and then amend the Registry entry, without breaking anything.

Jonas: +1
Dave: +1 (noting general misgivings about how the Registrar is operating currently)
Zash: +1
Daniel: +1
Georg: +1

5) Outstanding Votes
Daniel and Zash are yet to vote on PR #598, which expires next week.

6) Date of Next
2020-06-24 1500 UTC

Jonas may have a strict cut-off that day, or may even be called away at short notice in order to save the world from imminent catastrophe, and so requests a stand-in - Dave offers to be a stand-in chair - Peter advises that it's not safe to stand in a chair [presumably the XSF's non-existent workplace insurance wouldn't cover chair-standing related accidents].
Daniel will be on a train in what seems like the first time this decade, but expects to be able to participate from his phone - Jonas reminds Daniel to wear a mask on his phone.

7) AOB
Peter mentions that PR #905 is on his radar, and he just needs to carve out time to look at it more closely.

Zash pokes Peter on the subject of vCard4, as it went nowhere after the Last Call - Peter, who always welcomes a good poke (the harder the better) about PRs, recalls there wasn't strong interest at the time.

Dave thought it might be nice to get everyone together in a video call for a general not-a-Council-meeting chat - Jonas thinks that sounds like fun, and apparently video call stacks around the world have improved significantly in recent months - Dave suggests spending an extended period of time deliberating over which platform to use - Jonas suggests Jitsi Meet. Dave will sling around some time suggestions on the Council list and see if there's interest [and maybe a time will be decided before December].

8) Close
Jonas wishes everyone schönen Feierabend.

[1] https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2020-May/037443.html
[2] https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2020-June/037537.html

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