[Standards] XEP-0184: Message Delivery Receipts and XEP-0333: Chat Markers

Andrew Nenakhov andrew.nenakhov at redsolution.com
Thu Mar 5 14:39:09 UTC 2020

ср, 4 мар. 2020 г. в 16:46, Marvin W <xmpp at larma.de>:
> In contrast XEP-0333 serves a mostly different purpose: it notifies the
> sender only of the last received/displayed/acknowledged message.

And that is the right way to do it. In the decades of using XMPP
intensely I have probably had a dozen of incidents when there was a
lost message among sent of delivered ones. So notifying only about the
last received/displayed message saves a lot of traffic. And for those
few instances when errors do happen (as I said, once a year on
average), the most elegant way was to use attachment/reactions
mechanism to attach an error to this message.

> The XEP-0333 displayed feature is supported by many clients. The
> received feature of XEP-0333 is not often implemented in sending and
> sometimes also has very weird behavior in receiving (e.g. contrary to
> the XEP, only the message that was referenced in the received marker is
> marked as received, not all previous messages - which makes sense
> because XEP-0333 does not give any guarantee for previous messages, yet
> claims to).

The way XMPP works allows to consider previous messages as 'delivered'.

> The acknowledged feature also seems to be barely used (also
> because it is questionable how to realize it UI wise).

Actually, it's pretty easy. You have a voice message, it is delivered
to a contact, displayed, but not played. Once a user plays it to the
end, a client can send an ack. Then a sender sees that a voice message
was played by a recipient. Of the existing messengers it is done very
well by Telegram. We definitely plan to do that with Xabber. The only
meaningful improvement to 0333 should be to state that such
acknowledgement should not be sent to LAST message, as such use
definitely supposes a more granular approach to acknowledging

> Therefor deprecating/obsoleting XEP-0184 seems like a very bad idea to
> me, I'd rather remove the received/acknowledged feature from XEP-0333
> and rename it to read markers (which is the only part most implement
> anyway) so we don't have an overlap in features and people stop claiming
> that XEP-0184 might be obsoleted by XEP-0333.

So you're ready to break a useful and working XEP just to stop me from
(rightfully) claiming that XEP-0184 is obsolete? No wonder XMPP is
such a mess. :-D

Andrew Nenakhov
CEO, redsolution, OÜ

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