[Standards] XEP - 0045: nick attribute in member/owner/admin lists

Guus der Kinderen guus.der.kinderen at gmail.com
Wed Apr 13 11:50:34 UTC 2022

Dear XMPP aficionados,

XEP-0045 section 9.5[1] defines a to-be returned member list as follows:
"The service MUST then return the full member list to the admin qualified
by the 'http://jabber.org/protocol/muc#admin' namespace; each item MUST
include the 'affiliation' and 'jid' attributes and MAY include the 'nick'
and 'role' attributes for each member that is currently an occupant."

A similar definition exists for lists of other affiliation types ('owner'
and 'admin').

What value for the 'nick' attribute is intended here: the nickname
currently in use by this member, or the nickname that is reserved for the

I'm reading the text as: the 'nick' and 'role' attributes are included if
the member has currently joined the chatroom, which would suggest the

The former definition clashes in a scenario where a member has joined the
same chat room from multiple clients, using different nicknames. I don't
believe that this can be expressed in the member list when using this

>From experience, some existing client implementations expect the 'nick'
attribute to be present even when the member has not joined the chatroom
(to be used in a display in a UI), in other words, the latter definition.

As a possible benefit from using the latter definition: When using the
former definition, then there is no way for a client to obtain a list of
all reserved nicknames in a room. Using the latter definition, this becomes

>From the above, the latter definition (include the reserved nickname, not
the nickname-in-use) makes most sense to me. This is not how I read the XEP

I'd like the wording in the XEP to be less ambiguous, and clearly define
one or the other. I'm leaning towards the latter definition, but I'm also
thinking that this is a change to the existing text. Thoughts?

Kind regards,


[1] https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#modifymember
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