[jdev] conversing with multiple users, but not MUC

Sander Devrieze s.devrieze at pandora.be
Thu Jun 19 10:37:30 CDT 2008

2008/6/19 Jonathan Dickinson <jonathanD at k2.com>:
> I think we are all chasing things around in circles here.
> o This is all supported by XEP-0033<http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0033.html>
> o No servers support it
> o No clients support it
> Jehan to clarify your code (according to XEP-0033):
> ------------------------------
>  <message
>  to='multicast at example.org'
>  from='sniper5 at example.org/hotAirBaloon'
>  type='chat'
>  xml:lang='en'>
>   <addresses xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/address'>
>       <address type='cc' jid='romeo at example.net/orchard' desc='Romeo'/>
>       <address type='cc' jid='juliet at example.net/balcony' desc='Juliet'/>
>   </addresses>
>  <body>I know you two are misbehaving.</body>
>  <thread>e0ffe42b28561960c6b12b944a092794b9683a38</thread>
>  </message>
> ------------------------------
> PSA and JH made a really good job of that spec for one reason in particular: multicast.example.org is a component; no need to alter any client/server code and you could make this yourself today with any XMPP component library.
> Do we need to define another standard? No. Do we, the developers, have to sit down and look at our code tonight? Yes.
> Toby, today there is no support on the clients/servers (and possible components). It is something the XMPP community needs to look at, and I definitely will, but I don't know when you can expect wide-spread results. Your best bet would be to:
> 1. Wait for a server/component team to implement this feature and upgrade
> 2. Wait for a client team to implement this feature and recommend it to your clients
> The cocinnella chaps seem pretty good at making fast changes: maybe something for them to look at? They already have the whiteboard which has a private conference-loving implemenation - maybe someone could have a look at that code (sorry, not much use at C++ myself)?

Mats does not has much time these days. btw: Coccinella is Tcl/Tk; not C++

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jdev-bounces at jabber.org [mailto:jdev-bounces at jabber.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jeff McAdams
>> Sent: 19 June 2008 02:32 PM
>> To: Jabber/XMPP software development list
>> Subject: Re: [jdev] conversing with multiple users, but not MUC
>> JabberForum wrote:
>> > I think the problem of a muc derived use is about all the stuffs that
>> > many people don't care of, or don't understand. When you go to a muc,
>> > you must choose a muc server explicitely (even though it is the
>> server
>> > where you are already hosted) and you are proposed to chose a
>> nickname
>> > for instance, or whether you want to show your jid, or else being
>> > anonymous, etc.
>> Except that pretty much all of that is a matter of client
>> implementation.
>> The spec for MUC specifically envisioned potentially using it as a
>> seamless transition from a one-on-one discussion to a multi-way
>> discussion.
>> The scenario is that a one-on-one discussion is taking place and the
>> users decide that they want to add a third person.  So one of the
>> people invites a third person into the chat.
>> The client, and this can be completely behind the scenes, needs to go
>> create a MUC, potentially send history to it, then send invites to the
>> other two users with a <continue/> element.
>> This is all described in section 7.6 of
>> http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html
>> This protocol capability gives clients all the tools they need to
>> seamlessly convert a one-on-one to a quick ad-hoc sort of MUC chat with
>> multiple people.  The user need not be even aware that MUC is being
>> used to do it.
>> --
>> Jeff McAdams
>> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
>> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
>>                                        -- Benjamin Franklin
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Mvg, Sander Devrieze.

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