[Juser] Extension for XEP-0045 ?

Peter Saint-Andre stpeter at stpeter.im
Wed Dec 12 12:43:43 CST 2007

Peter Flindt wrote:
> Peter Saint-Andre wrote at 12.12.2007 :
>> Peter Flindt wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> after some time in the jabber at jaaber.org channel I notice that many
>>> different clients have this problem.
>>> Maybe a addition to XEP-45 or some other specification could solve this
>>> problem. How? I don't know. ;)
>>> (Or there is a specification and I couldn't found it)
>>> 1) I connect to conference room
>>> 2) all works normal
>>> 3) server drops the connection or other things happens on the server
>>> side
>>> 4) I am now in a ghost room, I can't send messages any longer.
>>> Sometimes, when the server drops the connection completly, my cleint
>>> regognize this and try a reconnect. The client reconnect, but to a room
>>> with 1 or 2 users.
>>> Some signal from the server would be usefull if the server reconnect
>>> or/and a general guideline how client can handle this.
>> Do you see this problem on other servers/chatrooms, for example if you
>> join a room on jabber.ru? I think this may be related to downtime
>> (server restarts) at jabber.org. If you are in the room when the
>> jabber.org server is restarted, then your client may not receive
>> unavailable presence from the room. In this case, support for XEP-0198
>> would probably help, but only if your server is smart about how it
>> handles bounced packets. And your server won't even know there is a
>> problem unless you (or someone else who uses your server) tries to send
>> a message to jabber.org. At least your client tries to reconnect (to the
>> room or to the jabber.org server, i.e., where is your account?) when it
>> receives a bounced message. If the jabber.org server was restarted then
>> you will return to a room with 1 or 2 users because everyone else was
>> disconnected and they have not reconnected yet.
>> I need to think about this some more to know if XEP-0198 will solve the
>> problem. In fact there are probably server problems here...
>> Peter
> Yes, I have this problem on all servers, tested with rooms on
> jabber,org, jabber.ru, jabbim.com, jabber.ccc.de it make no differents.
> (Tested with Login server jabber.org, jabber.ru and jabbim.com)
> Yes, this XEP-0198 seems to be the right way, bit I am not sure if this
> really fix the problems:
> a) I see the room and the users, but my messages are not send to the
> room.

But if you are not in the room, your messages should bounce. Perhaps
could you run your client in debug mode to see exactly what is happening?

> b)or I reconnect to a room and the room is empty.

If the server hosting the room is restarted, the occupants will not be
in the room anymore. The only solution is for clients to automatically
re-join the room. But to do that, they need to know that they are not in
the room anymore, which they might not realize until they try to send a
message to the room (and in many rooms, people don't send a lot of
messages, they just listen most of the time) or until they change their
presence (which doesn't happen all that often). One solution would be
for the room to remember who was in the room before the crash and then
send an invitation or presence or something to the old occupants when
the server is restarted. I'll think about that some more.

> I must admit, I compare a jabber room a little bit with a IRC channel
> and I never have similiar problems with an IRC channel. ;)

Well IRC does have netsplits.


Peter Saint-Andre

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