[Standards-JIG] pubsub access models

Jean-Louis Seguineau jean-louis.seguineau at laposte.net
Thu Jan 5 08:56:09 UTC 2006

Well, one always end-up in big trouble if one does not consider changes to
be part of the world, isn't it ;)

WS-pubsub has been out for over a year in different forms. You even have at
least one Java open source implementation at Apache, and closed source at
MSFT (but they've always made clear WS was the way they wanted to go, so did
IBM). WS is the weapon big software house will use to fight against all open
source based initiatives, touting standard interoperability (is
interoperability between MSFT and IBM a standard, you know the answer)

WS-pubsub is just an application of WS, based on hierarchical topics.
Nothing new here. And still hierarchical in nature. They use XML namespaces
instead of nodes. WS-pubsub relies on all the other WS standards to ensure
transport (SOAP), addresses, trust/security, policies, etc... But WS-pubsub
in itself is very straightforward to understand. This is where the problem

Another possible indication of things to come are the WS based extensions in
SIP the payloads used by MSFT live communication server. Knowing that IBM
has based its 'collaborative' effort entirely on SIP, you can imagine what
an agreement between both companies on such payloads could mean.

As a general note, people working to make WS a reality have clearly
understood that bringing a complex product to the world requires the
definition to either be of type "black box" or "appear" simple. Maybe we
should take this into consideration, revisit JEP-60 and break it into more
'digestible' pieces. 


P.S. IBM has been working on a new generation pub-sub messaging called
Gryphon for over 3 years now. It maybe time for it to be re-born ;)

-----Original Message-----
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:44:30 -0700
From: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter at jabber.org>
Subject: Re: [Standards-JIG] pubsub access models
To: Jabber protocol discussion list <standards-jig at jabber.org>
Message-ID: <43BC5DDE.7070505 at jabber.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> On 12/29/05, Chris Mullins <chris.mullins at coversant.net> wrote:
>> [Refactoring PubSub]
>> While you're in there, you might want to take a quick read through:
>> http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/specification/ws-pubsub/
>> This is a Web Service spec for pubsub - it's not a rich as JEP 60, but
>> it has some nice simplifications that streamline it quite nicely.

We're in deep trouble if anything starting with WS- is perceived as 
simple and streamlined compared to the XMPP offering. Have you clicked 
through to read all the relevant specs (and their dependencies on SOAP, 
SOAP-Envelope, WS-Addressing, WS-Policy, etc., etc.) or are you basing 
your opinion only on the whitepaper?


Peter Saint-Andre
Jabber Software Foundation

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