[Foundation] Re: jabber.com for president

Dave Smith dave at jabber.org
Sat Jun 30 23:17:38 CDT 2001

I _know_ full well that I should not say anything more....

*Dizzy sighs*

The problem at this point in the thread is that both sides of this
"conversation" are so full of disrespect for their opponent, that
anything said is only viewed as a personal attack.


Nothing is coming of this discussion, of rants, nor even valid
points. Everything is moot, thanks to personal shields being up, and
ghosts of criticism haunting this list. Rational thought has gone
AWOL, as has the concept of permitting the other person the benefit of
the doubt.


Thank you, sltsComm and Co. for bringing up the point that Jabber.com
has a lot of involvement in the Foundation. It is a valid point, and
one that should not be overlooked. However, I urge you to consider
that _someone_ has to bootstrap the Foundation. If you had been the
company to start the Foundation, consider the amount of flammage and
criticism you _would_ have received. See, it doesn't matter _who_
takes the first step forward; criticism is equally applied to all who
have the courage to try something new. Do not be mislead into thinking
that you (or any other entity) could have started a Foundation without
a heavy dosage of complaints. It's politics, it's people, it's the way
things are.

> Our concerns are  that in an organization, so heavily toploaded with people
> from the same group, with the same interests, that a bias will form. This is
> not an attack on any one of those people, nor is it  an attack on jc. It is
> based on our experience in the corporate world, and our personal experiences
> with "ugly corporate entities" (I work for a major US ISP that is with out a
> doubt one of the ugliest) Regardless of the noble intentions that form any
> of these entities, they always seem to go bad in the end.

Please give Jabber.com the opportunity to grow into the
evil ogre which it appears to be. When it does, kick it, beat it, burn
it, kill it. Until then, wait, hope, pray that Jabber.com will
actually turn out to simply be a group of honest people hoping to make
an original idea burn a little brighter and a little longer.

> You do strike on a very valid idea that perhaps 'we' should not belong to
> the foundation and should not contribute to it, THAT is a very real
> possibility, that is currently (and has been) under discussion. We can
> certainly pick up our toys and go play on someone else's field. (and there
> are other games in town)

This would accomplish nothing. Let us work out our differences and
form a more solid union committed to establishing Jabber as a standard.

> haven't the smallest idea of what we speak. Waiting for these issues to
> become "ISSUES" and then address them in 6 months or so will be to
> late. Everyone is in such a rush to get  past the pain of birth and get back to
> the fun stuff, that they are signing  the death warrant of a new-born. Get
> the Little Stuff done now. NOT in six month. then the fun can go on.
> Picture this thread six months from now....when it is TO LATE to make minor
> adjustments. The venom at that point could tear down alliances that have
> formed and were making progress.

Looking into the future is ever dangerous. Humans were never designed
to deal with the temporal hazards of knowing how the future will
unfold. Instead, we (all humans) must make every effort
to be fully aware of the current reality, so that in the future, when
the uncertain _does_ happen, we will be prepared. In this aspect, you
are correct to encourage a path of caution -- it is unfortunate that
this path was not tread with more dispatch and consideration for the
others who walk with you.

> "WE" have seen it happen, and don't wish it to happen here, as it

So noted. So appreciated. 

> These are just of course my observations and my opinions. You don't have to
> like them, and most of the time, I'm just prick enough, that I hope you
> don't.

Harmony is essential within in the Foundation. We (all constituents of
the Foundation) must strive for a balance in power, in word, in
deed. Your desire for other people _not_ to like your opinion concerns

I worked on Jabber before you had ever heard of Jabber. I came
before Jabber.com, and I will endure beyond it. Jabber has been a
labour of love for me. Have I had a lot of say/power/control in the
establishment of the Foundation? Assuredly, yes. I am one of the core
members of Jabber (the project) that made it what is was today -- and
so are the other people in Jabber.com who are founding this
entity. You _use_ what we created. Do not deny us the right, nor the
opportunity to make it easier for you to contribute. 

We have invested out hearts and minds into this project -- far more
than anyone else at this point. Remember this.

My concerns are similar to yours when it comes to establishing a
Foundation which is biased and heavy-handed. If that were to happen,
I would lose _more_ than you in that my life's work would become a
petty, hated thing. 

In the end, we are on the same side. Let us end this thread and make
every effort to move forward with dignity, honour, and pride. Let us
work together, acknowledging our differences, yet encouraging
wide-open thinking. 

Peace to you,


More information about the Members mailing list