[Foundation] Jabber (tm)

Michael Bauer bauer at jabber.com
Tue May 22 19:16:17 CDT 2001


 
Harold, awesome set of points.  We are acutely aware of your concerns and
are doing what we can to address them as quickly as possible.  In a number
of ways, the Foundation is being established, not so much to provide the
leadership you seek, but to expose it.  This leadership is there in the core
community.  The Foundation is being established to help them with their
ancillary responsibilities so they can lead.  There are just a few things
that we need to clarify first (some of which you've already commented on).
If there's anything I can do explicitly, please let me know.


-----Original Message-----
From: Harold E. Gottschalk Jr.
To: members at jabber.org
Sent: 5/22/01 5:29 PM
Subject: RE: [Foundation] Jabber (tm)

temas,
I have spent many hours reviewing the content of the site to find that
it
provides no leadership on what the state of a project is and who to
contact
to get involved.  A random list of the team members with comments that
indicate when I have time I may do this or that is insufficient.

Don't get me wrong I know there is a handful that are doing great work
and I
do not mean to disrespect anyone here! I found the documentation to be
good
and well written and the release server to work out of the box. I have
no
clue on how to get the information of what needs to be done, without
going
around lurking the jdev list or room to get tidbits.

I spent a good 5 days of my companies time learning the guts of the
server
and reworking the karma code. I then sent it to Keith after shaking the
tree
to see who to send it to) to get it merged, to find that when I grabbed
it
from CVS it was not completely merged, therefore making my changes look
incomplete, which reflects on me.  I emailed Keith to find out why?
Never
got a response.  I want to contribute, I have 20 years of development
experience, I have written many TCP/IP transactional systems in my days.

Where is the list of things that needs to be done.  You indicate that
you
are the lead server developer of jabber.org and you get paid right,
Keith
gets paid who is backing him up?

My experience is that in OSS you have a small window of opportunity to
hook
the interested parties into participation.  I am insignificant to the
longevity of jabber, jabber.org, because right now I am a transitory
person,
I could become a major supporter/contributor or not and just move on to
support something else.

I would appreciate knowing where is version 2 going?, What is the
vision?
Please email me or chat with me if I am available.

I mean no disrespect even though my tone is one of frustration and
anguish.

Sincerely,
heg

P.S. a side note Iain 2 months is a long time to wait to see how it
shakes
out.

-----Original Message-----
From: members-admin at jabber.org [mailto:members-admin at jabber.org]On
Behalf Of temas
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 3:38 PM
To: members at jabber.org
Subject: RE: [Foundation] Jabber (tm)


I respectfully disagree.  Yes we're helping with the foundation (mostly
jer) but a strong group of us are still strongly focussed on
development.  In all reality I would say that those of us hired by
Jabber.Com have had more time to focus in on the open source world.
It's all I spend my day doing, because I have 0 (zero) commercial
projects I work on.  The actual primary reason for so little core team
noise is because most of them are moving.  Jer has moved to a new house,
Keith has moved, and Peter is preparing too.  I guess I'm the only one
that has really been around for a most of this early summer time.  Also,
dizzyd has stepped up to help me with Jabelin.  It has taken shape, and
will soon be spitting out the works.  I've been focussing on docu, dpsm,
and some other areas.  Transport development has really picked up
recently, especially by myself and sheath.  I've seen a ton of new
projects and answered a ton of new emails, so I don't think there is a
problem with people joining the project.  Jabelin will help organize the
open source side of development, so watch that more than the foundation
if you want to develop.  So maybe you're just looking in the wrong spot?
=)

--temas


On 22 May 2001 09:56:23 -0500, Iain Shigeoka wrote:
> At 07:34 AM 5/22/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >I am unsettled not about the name or the name change, but about the
lack
of
> >leadership that I see here from Jabber.org and for that matter
Jabber.com.
> >I know this going to get me in trouble, but then I am sorry.  The
seperation
> >of jabber.org from jabber.com has not been easy. I have only been
looking
at
> >"jabber" for the last 6 months, not a veteran, not a newbie as far
looking
> >in, but a newbie as a participant.
>
> I'm a newbie myself.  I have been operating under the assumption that
most
> of the leadership "problems" are a result of the transition process (
j.o
> ---> j.c + j.o) and the fact that Jabber is relatively new and not
> extremely well established yet.  I think (am hoping) that the
Foundation
is
> going to be a test of the Jabber community's ability to move past this
> phase and become productive again.  A test that we will pass!  :)
>
>  From my experience with open source projects, there is always a small
core
> group that does 80-90% of the work.  j.c probably hired most/all of
them
so
> they are all now embroiled in trying to survive as a business, create
this
> foundation, and run j.o.  This has really blown the wind out of the
Jabber
> sails for the short term.  For us to move beyond this phase, either
the
j.c
> crew will have to take up the reins again (something that the
foundation
> may provide a good tool for doing) or a new core group will have to
form
up
> and start leading.  If neither happens of course, things will die a
slow
> death that I've seen before on open source projects.  ;(
>
> For us outsiders, the only thing we can do to help is either support
the
> current core members, or step in and try and fill the gaps, committing
to
> becoming a core member ourselves.  I personally am going to see how
the
> Foundation shakes out first, then try and really get involved within
that
> new framework...  The Jabber naming thing is one of many issues that I
> think will have to be addressed along the way so it may be a slow
> process.  I am mentally setting a "I hope/want/need it done by"
deadline
of
> the JabberCon at the end of the summer to evaluate the situation
> again...  Until then, I'm giving my 2cents and watching the dog and
pony
> show!  :)
>
> -iain
>
>
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