[Foundation] Jabber (tm)

zad zadk at mynet.com
Thu May 24 07:29:33 CDT 2001

Your comments just show how much we all care about jabber and how we want to
contribute and be productive towards the project goals. It simply is
frustrating to see that you could be of help and not be able to do anything
about it. I personally have felt kind of lost when I first started. Lately
we've had even more of that because we are in a transition phase as an

Lately, I can not help but get an exaggerated mental representation of the
current situation and my mind keeps buzzing: "there simply is no time to
land and fix the ship, just have to do it on the fly !"


> -----Original Message-----
> From: members-admin at jabber.org
> [mailto:members-admin at jabber.org]On Behalf Of Harold E. Gottschalk Jr.
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 2:30 AM
> To: members at jabber.org
> Subject: RE: [Foundation] Jabber (tm)
> temas,
> I have spent many hours reviewing the content of the site to find that it
> provides no leadership on what the state of a project is and who
> to contact
> to get involved.  A random list of the team members with comments that
> indicate when I have time I may do this or that is insufficient.
> Don't get me wrong I know there is a handful that are doing great
> work and I
> do not mean to disrespect anyone here! I found the documentation
> to be good
> and well written and the release server to work out of the box. I have no
> clue on how to get the information of what needs to be done, without going
> around lurking the jdev list or room to get tidbits.
> I spent a good 5 days of my companies time learning the guts of the server
> and reworking the karma code. I then sent it to Keith after
> shaking the tree
> to see who to send it to) to get it merged, to find that when I grabbed it
> from CVS it was not completely merged, therefore making my changes look
> incomplete, which reflects on me.  I emailed Keith to find out why?  Never
> got a response.  I want to contribute, I have 20 years of development
> experience, I have written many TCP/IP transactional systems in my days.
> Where is the list of things that needs to be done.  You indicate that you
> are the lead server developer of jabber.org and you get paid right, Keith
> gets paid who is backing him up?
> My experience is that in OSS you have a small window of
> opportunity to hook
> the interested parties into participation.  I am insignificant to the
> longevity of jabber, jabber.org, because right now I am a
> transitory person,
> I could become a major supporter/contributor or not and just move on to
> support something else.
> I would appreciate knowing where is version 2 going?, What is the vision?
> Please email me or chat with me if I am available.
> I mean no disrespect even though my tone is one of frustration
> and anguish.
> Sincerely,
> heg
> P.S. a side note Iain 2 months is a long time to wait to see how it shakes
> out.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: members-admin at jabber.org [mailto:members-admin at jabber.org]On
> Behalf Of temas
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 3:38 PM
> To: members at jabber.org
> Subject: RE: [Foundation] Jabber (tm)
> I respectfully disagree.  Yes we're helping with the foundation (mostly
> jer) but a strong group of us are still strongly focussed on
> development.  In all reality I would say that those of us hired by
> Jabber.Com have had more time to focus in on the open source world.
> It's all I spend my day doing, because I have 0 (zero) commercial
> projects I work on.  The actual primary reason for so little core team
> noise is because most of them are moving.  Jer has moved to a new house,
> Keith has moved, and Peter is preparing too.  I guess I'm the only one
> that has really been around for a most of this early summer time.  Also,
> dizzyd has stepped up to help me with Jabelin.  It has taken shape, and
> will soon be spitting out the works.  I've been focussing on docu, dpsm,
> and some other areas.  Transport development has really picked up
> recently, especially by myself and sheath.  I've seen a ton of new
> projects and answered a ton of new emails, so I don't think there is a
> problem with people joining the project.  Jabelin will help organize the
> open source side of development, so watch that more than the foundation
> if you want to develop.  So maybe you're just looking in the wrong spot?
> =)
> --temas
> On 22 May 2001 09:56:23 -0500, Iain Shigeoka wrote:
> > At 07:34 AM 5/22/2001 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> > >I am unsettled not about the name or the name change, but
> about the lack
> of
> > >leadership that I see here from Jabber.org and for that matter
> Jabber.com.
> > >I know this going to get me in trouble, but then I am sorry.  The
> seperation
> > >of jabber.org from jabber.com has not been easy. I have only
> been looking
> at
> > >"jabber" for the last 6 months, not a veteran, not a newbie as far
> looking
> > >in, but a newbie as a participant.
> >
> > I'm a newbie myself.  I have been operating under the
> assumption that most
> > of the leadership "problems" are a result of the transition
> process ( j.o
> > ---> j.c + j.o) and the fact that Jabber is relatively new and not
> > extremely well established yet.  I think (am hoping) that the Foundation
> is
> > going to be a test of the Jabber community's ability to move past this
> > phase and become productive again.  A test that we will pass!  :)
> >
> >  From my experience with open source projects, there is always a small
> core
> > group that does 80-90% of the work.  j.c probably hired most/all of them
> so
> > they are all now embroiled in trying to survive as a business,
> create this
> > foundation, and run j.o.  This has really blown the wind out of
> the Jabber
> > sails for the short term.  For us to move beyond this phase, either the
> j.c
> > crew will have to take up the reins again (something that the foundation
> > may provide a good tool for doing) or a new core group will have to form
> up
> > and start leading.  If neither happens of course, things will die a slow
> > death that I've seen before on open source projects.  ;(
> >
> > For us outsiders, the only thing we can do to help is either support the
> > current core members, or step in and try and fill the gaps,
> committing to
> > becoming a core member ourselves.  I personally am going to see how the
> > Foundation shakes out first, then try and really get involved
> within that
> > new framework...  The Jabber naming thing is one of many issues that I
> > think will have to be addressed along the way so it may be a slow
> > process.  I am mentally setting a "I hope/want/need it done by" deadline
> of
> > the JabberCon at the end of the summer to evaluate the situation
> > again...  Until then, I'm giving my 2cents and watching the dog and pony
> > show!  :)
> >
> > -iain
> >
> >
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