[Foundation] Text Conferencing Ammendment

Peter Saint-Andre stpeter at jabber.org
Thu Aug 15 16:00:18 CDT 2002


Ryan Eatmon has a solution via ChatBot which he might mention once he gest
it working. It would at least be as safe as memberbot is now.

Peter

--
Peter Saint-Andre
Jabber Software Foundation
http://www.jabber.org/people/stpeter.html

On Thu, 15 Aug 2002 bauer at michaelbauer.com wrote:

> 
> Ben is absolutely right.  This is coming down to a simple risk/reward 
> calcuation.  If it's the consensus of everyone that no, it's far too risky 
> to have the possibility of someone spoofing someone else in a text 
> conference for a Jabber Software Foundation meeting - even if votes are 
> taking through something a bit more secure like memberbot, then fine.  We 
> don't get the reward of having the convenience of people to participate in 
> this manner.  If they're overseas, they'll just have to spring for the 
> potentially hundreds of dollars it could cost to participate in a 
> teleconference for an overseas phone call.  I personally don't care 
> because I'm going to attend the meeting in person.  I was just trying to 
> make it easier for people to participate while at the same time I seemed 
> to be making it harder to do so by advocating that we stick a bit more to 
> the by-laws.  
> 
> This isn't a National (U.S.) Security conference.  It's just a Jabber 
> meeting.
> 
> 
> On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Ben Schumacher wrote:
> 
> > Playing devil's advocate now...
> > 
> > So uh... then we all have to do a web of trust, etc, etc. How do I know
> > you're really temas, despite what your PGP key says, if I haven't met
> > you...? (This is theoretical, of course... since we have met.) But how do
> > I know you are you say you are in person? You could have a fake ID?
> > 
> > /me just wants people to keep focus on the issues at hand, rather than the
> > whole internet identity problem at large.
> > 
> > We'll just have to wait for PingID to figure that part out for us. ;)
> > 
> > bs.
> > 
> > On 15 Aug 2002, Thomas Muldowney wrote:
> > > My point is, without verification of the identity through something like
> > > PGP keys, fingerprints, dna samples, or whatever else the component
> > > accepts, the system is probably not within the bounds we're researching
> > > again.  If people accept that fact, fine, but I won't trust it =)
> > >
> > > Memberbot can be partially trusted because it verifies the JID, which no
> > > one has shown a complete way to spoof, yet (bum bum bum, insert
> > > foreboding music here).  I still think it could be improved with
> > > something like PGP signed presence, or the new XML encryption stuff.
> > >
> > > --temas
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 2002-08-15 at 14:07, bauer at michaelbauer.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I think "useless sham" is a bit strong.  All I'm trying to do is to strike
> > > > some balance between doing what needs to be done from the perspective of
> > > > the by-laws and providing some accommodation for the "Jabber way" of
> > > > communicating in a cooperative fashion.  Technically, no meetings can be
> > > > held without being there in person or on the phone in a conference call.
> > > > No votes can be carried out unless done so in-person, on the phone,
> > > > in-writing, or through e-mail (and even that is a bit suspect).
> > > >
> > > > We're kind of going from one extreme to the other here.  Voting for Board
> > > > Members via the memberbot is definitely not acceptable yet everyone seemed
> > > > OK with that.  Now, simply adding the memberbot as an additional conduit
> > > > in the context of the more legally correct physical meeting supplemented
> > > > by conference calls does not seem acceptable.
> > > >
> > > > On 15 Aug 2002, Thomas Muldowney wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You still have identity issues.  The groupchat server, in it's current
> > > > > state, just can't verify that people are who they say they are.  While
> > > > > this doesn't hurt voting, it does make the meeting something of a
> > > > > useless sham.
> > > > >
> > > > > --temas
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, 2002-08-15 at 13:31, bauer at michaelbauer.com wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe we could something else, like MSN?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Seriously, I think we could use groupchat for meetings but then carry out
> > > > > > votes using memberbot.  That way we could have the discussions and
> > > > > > official votes would be verifiable.  I could ammend the ammendment to so
> > > > > > stipulate.  Would that be acceptable?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > My only concern right now is that groupchat is essentially anonymous. We
> > > > > > > need a way to verify that someone is who they say they are. Until then I'm
> > > > > > > not sure we can regarding groupchat as reliably or official.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thoughts?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Peter
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Peter Saint-Andre
> > > > > > > Jabber Software Foundation
> > > > > > > http://www.jabber.org/people/stpeter.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, 15 Aug 2002 bauer at michaelbauer.com wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There has been some continual confusion over whether we can use Jabber to
> > > > > > > > actually have some of these meetings.  I'd like to try and end that
> > > > > > > > confusion for meetings of the Members:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I propose that the Board of Directors approve the addition of the
> > > > > > > > following sentence to the end of the existing paragraph for Section 3.1
> > > > > > > > Place of Meetings in the Jabber Software Foundation By-Laws.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Text conferencing is an approved form of remote communication provided
> > > > > > > > all participants communicate with one another through the text
> > > > > > > > conference."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Note a couple of things about this statement.  First, the caveat that all
> > > > > > > > participants have to communicate with one another through the conference.
> > > > > > > > This seems a little redundant but it's important because you can't have
> > > > > > > > some people talking on the phone and others talking in the text
> > > > > > > > conference.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Second, note that this does NOT necessarily apply to a meeting of the
> > > > > > > > Board of Directors.  I think that those meetings must still be conducted
> > > > > > > > over the phone at a minimum.  Resolving whether the Board can use text
> > > > > > > > conferencing is not nearly as important right now.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > Michael Bauer     bauer at michaelbauer.com       http://www.michaelbauer.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > > > Members at jabber.org
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > Michael Bauer     bauer at michaelbauer.com       http://www.michaelbauer.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > Members at jabber.org
> > > > > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Michael Bauer     bauer at michaelbauer.com       http://www.michaelbauer.com
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Members mailing list
> > > > Members at jabber.org
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> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
> > >
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Members mailing list
> > Members at jabber.org
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
> > 
> 
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Bauer     bauer at michaelbauer.com       http://www.michaelbauer.com
> 
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> 




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