[Foundation] Text Conferencing Ammendment

Ryan Eatmon reatmon at jabber.org
Thu Aug 15 19:37:56 CDT 2002


Heck, I'll mention it before I finish getting it working.

I'm writing a ChatBot plugin (hope I'm not violating a patent here...) 
that will browse for the real JID of the person behind the nick.  It 
will announce you to the room once it knows if you are a member or not, 
and you can query it at any time to see.

The onus being that you must log into the groupchat from the JID that 
you are registered with.  But with browse, if you are logged into a 
channel, you can find out the real JID of the person.  It's not very 
anonymous by nature.  =)

I'll let you all know when I'm done and have all of the kinks worked out 
of the system.


Peter Saint-Andre wrote:

>Ryan Eatmon has a solution via ChatBot which he might mention once he gest
>it working. It would at least be as safe as memberbot is now.
>
>Peter
>
>--
>Peter Saint-Andre
>Jabber Software Foundation
>http://www.jabber.org/people/stpeter.html
>
>On Thu, 15 Aug 2002 bauer at michaelbauer.com wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Ben is absolutely right.  This is coming down to a simple risk/reward 
>>calcuation.  If it's the consensus of everyone that no, it's far too risky 
>>to have the possibility of someone spoofing someone else in a text 
>>conference for a Jabber Software Foundation meeting - even if votes are 
>>taking through something a bit more secure like memberbot, then fine.  We 
>>don't get the reward of having the convenience of people to participate in 
>>this manner.  If they're overseas, they'll just have to spring for the 
>>potentially hundreds of dollars it could cost to participate in a 
>>teleconference for an overseas phone call.  I personally don't care 
>>because I'm going to attend the meeting in person.  I was just trying to 
>>make it easier for people to participate while at the same time I seemed 
>>to be making it harder to do so by advocating that we stick a bit more to 
>>the by-laws.  
>>
>>This isn't a National (U.S.) Security conference.  It's just a Jabber 
>>meeting.
>>
>>
>>On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Ben Schumacher wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Playing devil's advocate now...
>>>
>>>So uh... then we all have to do a web of trust, etc, etc. How do I know
>>>you're really temas, despite what your PGP key says, if I haven't met
>>>you...? (This is theoretical, of course... since we have met.) But how do
>>>I know you are you say you are in person? You could have a fake ID?
>>>
>>>/me just wants people to keep focus on the issues at hand, rather than the
>>>whole internet identity problem at large.
>>>
>>>We'll just have to wait for PingID to figure that part out for us. ;)
>>>
>>>bs.
>>>
>>>On 15 Aug 2002, Thomas Muldowney wrote:
>>>      
>>>
>>>>My point is, without verification of the identity through something like
>>>>PGP keys, fingerprints, dna samples, or whatever else the component
>>>>accepts, the system is probably not within the bounds we're researching
>>>>again.  If people accept that fact, fine, but I won't trust it =)
>>>>
>>>>Memberbot can be partially trusted because it verifies the JID, which no
>>>>one has shown a complete way to spoof, yet (bum bum bum, insert
>>>>foreboding music here).  I still think it could be improved with
>>>>something like PGP signed presence, or the new XML encryption stuff.
>>>>
>>>>--temas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Thu, 2002-08-15 at 14:07, bauer at michaelbauer.com wrote:
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>I think "useless sham" is a bit strong.  All I'm trying to do is to strike
>>>>>some balance between doing what needs to be done from the perspective of
>>>>>the by-laws and providing some accommodation for the "Jabber way" of
>>>>>communicating in a cooperative fashion.  Technically, no meetings can be
>>>>>held without being there in person or on the phone in a conference call.
>>>>>No votes can be carried out unless done so in-person, on the phone,
>>>>>in-writing, or through e-mail (and even that is a bit suspect).
>>>>>
>>>>>We're kind of going from one extreme to the other here.  Voting for Board
>>>>>Members via the memberbot is definitely not acceptable yet everyone seemed
>>>>>OK with that.  Now, simply adding the memberbot as an additional conduit
>>>>>in the context of the more legally correct physical meeting supplemented
>>>>>by conference calls does not seem acceptable.
>>>>>
>>>>>On 15 Aug 2002, Thomas Muldowney wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>You still have identity issues.  The groupchat server, in it's current
>>>>>>state, just can't verify that people are who they say they are.  While
>>>>>>this doesn't hurt voting, it does make the meeting something of a
>>>>>>useless sham.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--temas
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On Thu, 2002-08-15 at 13:31, bauer at michaelbauer.com wrote:
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Maybe we could something else, like MSN?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>:)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Seriously, I think we could use groupchat for meetings but then carry out
>>>>>>>votes using memberbot.  That way we could have the discussions and
>>>>>>>official votes would be verifiable.  I could ammend the ammendment to so
>>>>>>>stipulate.  Would that be acceptable?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>My only concern right now is that groupchat is essentially anonymous. We
>>>>>>>>need a way to verify that someone is who they say they are. Until then I'm
>>>>>>>>not sure we can regarding groupchat as reliably or official.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Peter
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>Peter Saint-Andre
>>>>>>>>Jabber Software Foundation
>>>>>>>>http://www.jabber.org/people/stpeter.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Thu, 15 Aug 2002 bauer at michaelbauer.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>There has been some continual confusion over whether we can use Jabber to
>>>>>>>>>actually have some of these meetings.  I'd like to try and end that
>>>>>>>>>confusion for meetings of the Members:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I propose that the Board of Directors approve the addition of the
>>>>>>>>>following sentence to the end of the existing paragraph for Section 3.1
>>>>>>>>>Place of Meetings in the Jabber Software Foundation By-Laws.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Text conferencing is an approved form of remote communication provided
>>>>>>>>>all participants communicate with one another through the text
>>>>>>>>>conference."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Note a couple of things about this statement.  First, the caveat that all
>>>>>>>>>participants have to communicate with one another through the conference.
>>>>>>>>>This seems a little redundant but it's important because you can't have
>>>>>>>>>some people talking on the phone and others talking in the text
>>>>>>>>>conference.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Second, note that this does NOT necessarily apply to a meeting of the
>>>>>>>>>Board of Directors.  I think that those meetings must still be conducted
>>>>>>>>>over the phone at a minimum.  Resolving whether the Board can use text
>>>>>>>>>conferencing is not nearly as important right now.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>Michael Bauer     bauer at michaelbauer.com       http://www.michaelbauer.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>Members mailing list
>>>>>>>>>Members at jabber.org
>>>>>>>>>http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>Members mailing list
>>>>>>>>Members at jabber.org
>>>>>>>>http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>Michael Bauer     bauer at michaelbauer.com       http://www.michaelbauer.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>Members mailing list
>>>>>>>Members at jabber.org
>>>>>>>http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>Members mailing list
>>>>>>Members at jabber.org
>>>>>>http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>Michael Bauer     bauer at michaelbauer.com       http://www.michaelbauer.com
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Members mailing list
>>>>>Members at jabber.org
>>>>>http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Members mailing list
>>>>Members at jabber.org
>>>>http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Members mailing list
>>>Members at jabber.org
>>>http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>-- 
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Michael Bauer     bauer at michaelbauer.com       http://www.michaelbauer.com
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Members mailing list
>>Members at jabber.org
>>http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
>>
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Members mailing list
>Members at jabber.org
>http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
>  
>

-- 

Ryan Eatmon                   reatmon at jabber.org 
------------------------------------------------
Jabber.org - Perl Team    jid:reatmon at jabber.org






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