[Foundation] Text Conferencing Ammendment

Richard Dobson richard at dobson-i.net
Fri Aug 16 11:17:20 CDT 2002


That could be used in the meantime, but in the longer term what about
introducing nickname reservation like IRC (DalNet) into the conference
protocol?

Richard

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Hildebrand" <hildjj at cursive.net>
To: <members at jabber.org>
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 2:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Foundation] Text Conferencing Ammendment


> Or, we can exploit the "bug" in groupchat that goes one level too deep
> with browse, if you are in the room.  Using browse, anyone can find out
> anyone else's "real" jid.
>
> --
> Joe Hildebrand
> Denver, CO, USA
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Saint-Andre [mailto:stpeter at jabber.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 3:00 PM
> > To: members at jabber.org
> > Subject: Re: [Foundation] Text Conferencing Ammendment
> >
> > Ryan Eatmon has a solution via ChatBot which he might mention once he
> gest
> > it working. It would at least be as safe as memberbot is now.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > --
> > Peter Saint-Andre
> > Jabber Software Foundation
> > http://www.jabber.org/people/stpeter.html
> >
> > On Thu, 15 Aug 2002 bauer at michaelbauer.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Ben is absolutely right.  This is coming down to a simple
> risk/reward
> > > calcuation.  If it's the consensus of everyone that no, it's far too
> > risky
> > > to have the possibility of someone spoofing someone else in a text
> > > conference for a Jabber Software Foundation meeting - even if votes
> are
> > > taking through something a bit more secure like memberbot, then
> fine.
> > We
> > > don't get the reward of having the convenience of people to
> participate
> > in
> > > this manner.  If they're overseas, they'll just have to spring for
> the
> > > potentially hundreds of dollars it could cost to participate in a
> > > teleconference for an overseas phone call.  I personally don't care
> > > because I'm going to attend the meeting in person.  I was just
> trying to
> > > make it easier for people to participate while at the same time I
> seemed
> > > to be making it harder to do so by advocating that we stick a bit
> more
> > to
> > > the by-laws.
> > >
> > > This isn't a National (U.S.) Security conference.  It's just a
> Jabber
> > > meeting.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Ben Schumacher wrote:
> > >
> > > > Playing devil's advocate now...
> > > >
> > > > So uh... then we all have to do a web of trust, etc, etc. How do I
> > know
> > > > you're really temas, despite what your PGP key says, if I haven't
> met
> > > > you...? (This is theoretical, of course... since we have met.) But
> how
> > do
> > > > I know you are you say you are in person? You could have a fake
> ID?
> > > >
> > > > /me just wants people to keep focus on the issues at hand, rather
> than
> > the
> > > > whole internet identity problem at large.
> > > >
> > > > We'll just have to wait for PingID to figure that part out for us.
> ;)
> > > >
> > > > bs.
> > > >
> > > > On 15 Aug 2002, Thomas Muldowney wrote:
> > > > > My point is, without verification of the identity through
> something
> > like
> > > > > PGP keys, fingerprints, dna samples, or whatever else the
> component
> > > > > accepts, the system is probably not within the bounds we're
> > researching
> > > > > again.  If people accept that fact, fine, but I won't trust it
> =)
> > > > >
> > > > > Memberbot can be partially trusted because it verifies the JID,
> > which no
> > > > > one has shown a complete way to spoof, yet (bum bum bum, insert
> > > > > foreboding music here).  I still think it could be improved with
> > > > > something like PGP signed presence, or the new XML encryption
> stuff.
> > > > >
> > > > > --temas
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, 2002-08-15 at 14:07, bauer at michaelbauer.com wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think "useless sham" is a bit strong.  All I'm trying to do
> is
> > to strike
> > > > > > some balance between doing what needs to be done from the
> > perspective of
> > > > > > the by-laws and providing some accommodation for the "Jabber
> way"
> > of
> > > > > > communicating in a cooperative fashion.  Technically, no
> meetings
> > can be
> > > > > > held without being there in person or on the phone in a
> conference
> > call.
> > > > > > No votes can be carried out unless done so in-person, on the
> > phone,
> > > > > > in-writing, or through e-mail (and even that is a bit
> suspect).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We're kind of going from one extreme to the other here.
> Voting
> > for Board
> > > > > > Members via the memberbot is definitely not acceptable yet
> > everyone seemed
> > > > > > OK with that.  Now, simply adding the memberbot as an
> additional
> > conduit
> > > > > > in the context of the more legally correct physical meeting
> > supplemented
> > > > > > by conference calls does not seem acceptable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 15 Aug 2002, Thomas Muldowney wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > You still have identity issues.  The groupchat server, in
> it's
> > current
> > > > > > > state, just can't verify that people are who they say they
> are.
> > While
> > > > > > > this doesn't hurt voting, it does make the meeting something
> of
> > a
> > > > > > > useless sham.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --temas
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, 2002-08-15 at 13:31, bauer at michaelbauer.com wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Maybe we could something else, like MSN?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Seriously, I think we could use groupchat for meetings but
> > then carry out
> > > > > > > > votes using memberbot.  That way we could have the
> discussions
> > and
> > > > > > > > official votes would be verifiable.  I could ammend the
> > ammendment to so
> > > > > > > > stipulate.  Would that be acceptable?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My only concern right now is that groupchat is
> essentially
> > anonymous. We
> > > > > > > > > need a way to verify that someone is who they say they
> are.
> > Until then I'm
> > > > > > > > > not sure we can regarding groupchat as reliably or
> official.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thoughts?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Peter
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > Peter Saint-Andre
> > > > > > > > > Jabber Software Foundation
> > > > > > > > > http://www.jabber.org/people/stpeter.html
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Thu, 15 Aug 2002 bauer at michaelbauer.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > There has been some continual confusion over whether
> we
> > can use Jabber to
> > > > > > > > > > actually have some of these meetings.  I'd like to try
> and
> > end that
> > > > > > > > > > confusion for meetings of the Members:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I propose that the Board of Directors approve the
> addition
> > of the
> > > > > > > > > > following sentence to the end of the existing
> paragraph
> > for Section 3.1
> > > > > > > > > > Place of Meetings in the Jabber Software Foundation
> By-
> > Laws.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "Text conferencing is an approved form of remote
> > communication provided
> > > > > > > > > > all participants communicate with one another through
> the
> > text
> > > > > > > > > > conference."
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Note a couple of things about this statement.  First,
> the
> > caveat that all
> > > > > > > > > > participants have to communicate with one another
> through
> > the conference.
> > > > > > > > > > This seems a little redundant but it's important
> because
> > you can't have
> > > > > > > > > > some people talking on the phone and others talking in
> the
> > text
> > > > > > > > > > conference.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Second, note that this does NOT necessarily apply to a
> > meeting of the
> > > > > > > > > > Board of Directors.  I think that those meetings must
> > still be conducted
> > > > > > > > > > over the phone at a minimum.  Resolving whether the
> Board
> > can use text
> > > > > > > > > > conferencing is not nearly as important right now.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > >
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------------
> > > > > > > > > > Michael Bauer     bauer at michaelbauer.com
> > http://www.michaelbauer.com
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > Members mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > Members at jabber.org
> > > > > > > > > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Members mailing list
> > > > > > > > > Members at jabber.org
> > > > > > > > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > >
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------------
> > > > > > > > Michael Bauer     bauer at michaelbauer.com
> > http://www.michaelbauer.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Members mailing list
> > > > > > > > Members at jabber.org
> > > > > > > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Members mailing list
> > > > > > > Members at jabber.org
> > > > > > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --------
> > > > > > Michael Bauer     bauer at michaelbauer.com
> > http://www.michaelbauer.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Members mailing list
> > > > > > Members at jabber.org
> > > > > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Members mailing list
> > > > > Members at jabber.org
> > > > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Members mailing list
> > > > Members at jabber.org
> > > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > > Michael Bauer     bauer at michaelbauer.com
> > http://www.michaelbauer.com
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Members mailing list
> > > Members at jabber.org
> > > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Members mailing list
> > Members at jabber.org
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
> _______________________________________________
> Members mailing list
> Members at jabber.org
> http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/members
>





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