[standards-jig] Re: [Foundation] Motion for Last Call - Chat State Notifications (JEP-0085)

Julian Missig julian at jabber.org
Fri Dec 5 00:27:08 CST 2003

On 4 Dec, 2003, at 15:22, Sebastiaan Deckers wrote:

> Julian,
> No one is being forced to support this.  Perhaps you can make it 
> optional in your clients.  Perhaps not implement it at all.

Actually, Chat State is on standards track, and this move would put 
x:event on the list of "old protocols to no longer support"... Chat 
State replaces x:event, it doesn't supplement it. This means that new 
clients won't implement x:event. As in, my client won't be able to just 
stick with x:event because I actually want to be able to send and 
receive composing events from other clients.

"Support both" isn't an option, either, because I don't want to tell 
all client authors they have to implement both. It's going to end up 
being one or the other in the end.

There is a different form of loss of privacy involved in letting others 
know about your window management. I don't find your argument for the 
close window notification all that compelling, because alice could just 
as easy have logged off or set herself away and bob could see that 
right away. Having a "goodbye" message stored offline isn't all that 
big of a deal.

I'm absolutely positive that if I sent "closed window" events to people 
whenever I closed my windows, they would be offended. I close windows 
all the time. It doesn't really make a difference. This is the form of 
loss of privacy I'm talking about. No one's going to be offended or 
know something important if they can see that I'm typing a message to 
them. Depending on how the "closed window" event is displayed to other 
users in their clients (which I have no control over), it can seem 
rather offensive if they see that I closed their window immediately 
after seeing a message. I think it will lead to a lot more problems 
than it solves.

Even if Chat State is accepted and such, I will not implement closed 
window in any of my clients. Anyway, this whole closed window thing is 
just a side rant to the bigger issue of Chat State vs. x:event 
altogether. I don't want to completely get rid of and replace a 
protocol which a lot of people are finally coming around to implement.


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