[Foundation] motions

Martin Lesser m-lesser at better-com.de
Thu Jun 12 04:33:25 CDT 2003

Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter at jabber.org> writes:

> Today Dave Smith and I had a conversation about the importance of 
> seeking and incorporating feedback from implementers of our protocols,
> and of designing protocols that people actually want to implement. The
> JSF does not exist to create protocols for the sake of protocols. A
> beautiful protocol with no implementations is useless.

Ack. Thanks for this statement - it leads me to a question which goes
through my mind since months concerning the current discussion about
changing the bylaws of the JSF. Until now the voting about new members
was heavily touched by the question "Did you provide any JEPs?". The
form you designed for the renewal of a JSF-membership
(http://www.jabber.org/tmp/newapp.html) also has this question at

As long as contributing JEPs has such a high rating for the
JSF-membership we should not wonder about the "inflation" of protocols.

> With that in mind, I'm wondering if we need to be more stringent about
> initiating Last Calls.

IMO we should be more stringent one step before: Pushing down the
importance of designing new protocols would be a better approach.

> I think a reality check of this kind will help to ensure that JSF
> protocols are really needed and wanted out there in the marketplace.


> Unless I get public commitments from people that they think this 
> protocol is needed and will be implemented, I will probably retract
> this JEP or make it informational.

Informational for JEP13 would be sufficient enough if the needs you
described could not be fulfilled. Retraction instead would be an affront
for the members which seconded it due to the fact that the bylaws say
something else. Just my 0.02$

> The Jabber specs are busy enough as it is, without adding protocols
> that no one will use.

As I said before: As long as writing new JEPs looks like playing such an
important role for the membership we should not be surprised about the
current situation.


JabberID: martin at jabber.bettercom.de

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