[Foundation] JSF == Jabber Standards Foundation?

Richard Dobson richard at dobson-i.net
Wed May 28 14:02:43 CDT 2003

+1 !!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Smith" <dizzyd at jabber.org>
To: <members at jabber.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation] JSF == Jabber Standards Foundation?

> Hash: SHA1
> On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 09:05 America/Denver, Matt Tucker wrote:
> > Actually, I don't think this is true. If the JSF can agree to remove 
> > Jabber from it's name and to not use Jabber in the name of official 
> > protocol extensions for compliance purposes (such as "Jabber IM Basic 
> > 1.0"), then that should free you from having to try to explain the 
> > difference between an open protocol and your products to your 
> > customers, the press, etc. You'd then be more free to use the Jabber 
> > brand to promote your commercial products, which is your right. So, 
> > the change really seems to benefit all of us, including Jabber Inc at 
> > the end of the day.
> Before you read this, please disable emotional reactions. I'm trying to 
> explain my feelings in hope of continuing the conversation in a 
> meaningful manner.
> <emotion type="frustration">
> For all of this discussion, I still don't see how renaming the 
> Foundation and refraining from using the word "Jabber" in official 
> documents will ease/remove the time we all have to spend explaining 
> what Jabber is, what XMPP is, what JSF is, etc. It's a complex 
> community, with many faucets -- changing the name doesn't change that. 
> The fact of the matter is that people use the term "Jabber" as often as 
> they use XMPP. Yes, I know there are press releases that talk only 
> about XMPP, but "Jabber" is a term which crops up whenever I've ever 
> heard anyone discuss XMPP.
> Honestly, I have a lot of emotion wrapped up in this whole thread 
> (obviously). I can't help but wonder where we were you guys in 1999 
> when the Jabber project got started? Where you helping build the first, 
> second, and third servers? Did you help shape the protocol, stay up 
> late nights discussing the merits and disadvantages of using a 
> document-per-packet? Where were you when the JSF was founded -- did you 
> contribute to the structure or put thought into the organization to 
> ensure that no one company had all the control (not even JINC)? What 
> JEPs have you submitted that are in everyday use? What right do you 
> have to come into this gathering and say "Let's throw out this "Jabber" 
> name -- it's got too much baggage"?!
> Open Source projects are meritocracies. From my standpoint, no merit 
> has been earned by those who wish to change the name, and as such, I 
> have difficulty viewing them as anything more than persons interested 
> in doing a power grab. Participating in this community requires people 
> to contribute something meaningful before they can start to have a say 
> in the direction and future of our community.
> People are passionate about Jabber -- and rightfully so, I believe. 
> Changing the name of a community is a Big Deal, recommending that 
> people prefer the term XMPP over Jabber is a Big Deal.
> I want the community to continue to grow -- I always have. I want to 
> see new companies participating and contributing extensions. I _want_ 
> more competitors to JINC; bring it on! I (and quite a few others who 
> _have_ earned merit in this project) are just not convinced that a name 
> change will do that.
> </emotion>
> I do not say any of this lightly. I realize my discourse is loaded with 
> flames -- however I just need to get that off my chest and summarize 
> where I stand on the matter. I apologize if I have deeply offended 
> anyone, but as a good friend said to me the other day, "Thick skin is a 
> necessity in the online world".
> Matt & Co: can we please just see the proposal you keep alluding to? 
> And can we please just get down to voting on it? This thread is getting 
> old.
> Sincerely,
> Diz
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> =o5+8
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