[Members] Is this thing on?

Trejkaz Xaoza trejkaz at xaoza.net
Fri Dec 17 19:25:25 CST 2004


On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 21:19, Bart van Bragt wrote:
> I don't really see having multiple libraries/APIs as a problem. You'll
> need several APIs anyway, the number of languages that have a
> Jabber/XMPP library available is almost scary :)

A couple of libraries per language is okay, but suppose you're a Java 
developer and you need to pick an XMPP/Jabber API to use:

    JSO
    YaJa
    Smack
    b9j2 (successor to Jabberbeans)
    Echomine Muse
    J-XMPP
    Jabber4Java

This list is bordering on saturation... there absolutely _must_ be some 
overlap in here.  (One thing I've been wanting to do forever is to write a 
wrapper on top of JSO which would implement a simplistic API like Smack, to 
give the best of both worlds.)

But how does a developer new to Jabber choose which library to use for their 
new project?  Perhaps we need some sort of developer-targeted API "reviews" 
on jabber.org. :-)

> If we are going to put development time into something then we should
> put this time into decent servers. There are a LOT of clients out there
> but only a few half decent servers. There still is only one (unfinished)
> pubsub implementation, etc, etc.

Is this referring to ejabberd or Idavoll?  I got the impression that 
ejabberd's implementation was a bit closer to completion than you suggest.

> Besides that XMPP's share in the corporate world is nice but IMO
> Microsofts LCS is going to be a very tough competitor. Office
> integration, anyone? :D

Office integration would be interesting.  There are already tricks for 
connecting Outlook to non-Microsoft groupware software (e.g. OpenGroupware.)  
Perhaps we can do a similar thing somewhere... any use cases in mind?

One thing which has always interested me was MSN2Jabber... the thing which was 
supposed to convert your existing MSN client into a Jabber client by 
proxying.  Do that to a company of 200 users, and you have 200 more Jabber 
users and 200 less MSN users as a side-effect. ;-)

> Lots of people are buying webcams at the moment (ok, mostly
> the 16 yo girls :D). But I'm also using Skype to stay in contact with
> some people when it's too expensive to use the phone. Works perfectly,
> should work perfectly with Jabber too IMO.

Skype has one advantage, that it can bust through NAT using a third party.  
You could argue that a SOCKS5 Bytestream Proxy would solve this, but as a 
server admin, I will happily say that I will never support it on our server 
due to bandwidth limitations.  If, however, there were some way to advertise 
SOCKS5 proxies owned by ordinary users, and other users could discover this 
somehow, we would be equivalent to Skype, only much more standard.

However I'm still not convinced XMPP is the right protocol for initiating 
voice over IP.  There's a little thing called SIP which has been implemented 
in millions of hardware devices already, that we would need to dethrone to 
win that battle.  Sure, XMPP in a house phone would be cool... but I don't 
see it happening any time soon. :-)

The real stopgap here would be to standardise how to publish SIP addresses 
over XMPP, which people have been discussing already in another thread, with 
respect to GnomeMeeting (and GM2, which is the one which will support SIP.)  
Then any client can integrate with whatever they want, or they can build in a 
SIP stack themselves. ;-)

> And then I'm going to stand on my soapbox again and say it once more:
> WEBINTEGRATION.

I'm going down this route myself on my new web site.  Instead of building the 
site itself from scratch, I've obtained SnipSnap, which is a weblog+wiki app 
that happens to support Jabber in a few places.  It already sends page change 
notifications via Jabber and I'll integrate blog posting via Jabber if it 
isn't there already.  Status indication and such things are the other obvious 
things that can be done, although I already had that on my PHP-Meshed site.

Jabber.org.au are doing the integration in a big way too, the forums and the 
Jabber server use the same database, and the next step is merging JUD with 
the forum profiles.

TX

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             Email: Trejkaz Xaoza <trejkaz at xaoza.net>
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