stpeter at jabber.org
Mon Aug 21 12:09:37 CDT 2006
Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> On 17/08/06 at 11:50 -0600, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>> I think it may be time to change our protocol branding to XMPP.
>> I realize this may seem radical. In 2004 we had a big debate about this
>> and it almost split the community apart. And at that time I opposed any
>> such change. But times change and people change their minds too. Here is
>> my reasoning:
>> 1. In 2004 we were paranoid about using "XMPP" because we didn't want to
>> scare the IETF. But I think we would be OK if we clearly label the
>> protocols that we define as "XMPP Extensions" rather than as changes to
>> XMPP itself (which is still all and only what is defined in the RFCs).
>> See the "Relation to XMPP" note in any Standards Track JEP for details.
>> 2. Now "XMPP" is much better known. "Jabber" is still better known, but
>> in the protocol space "XMPP" is now quite common.
> My main concern about JEPs is that most of them are already too
> "XMPP-ish". They are written by protocol geeks,
Do you have suggestions on how to get someone other than protocol geeks
to write XMPP protocol extensions? Do we even want that? IMHO it's best
to leave the writing of protocol extensions to people who (1) can write
and (2) understand XMPP. There aren't many such people around. ;-) In
fact there's probably a good reason why I've written 80% or more of the
JEPs. Documentation is no fun, especially when you're writing protocol
> and sometimes, it seems
> that they are only written because it's fun to write protocols.
It's fun to write protocol specifications if you're a protocol geek. If
you're not, then I recommend doing something you find fun, like writing
code. Division of labor and all that...
> Most of
> them are never implemented in clients.
Many of the existing JEPs are retracted or deprecated. Of the ones that
are Draft, Final, or Active, some of them are used only in specialized
applications (e.g., Jabber-RPC), not in IM clients (but who ever said
that Jabber/XMPP technologies are limited to IM?). Some of them are
truly useless or not implemented (e.g., JEP-0013) and we need to remove
those from our published protocols by deprecating them.
> I fear that switching from JEP to XEP will push the JSF work even
> further from the real life, that is, people using Jabber clients to chat
> with friends/colleagues. (Ok, XMPP is not only used for that, but this
> use(r)-base should not be forgotten).
I think we have basic chatting with friends and colleagues covered
pretty well, no? Most of the things we work on these days are extensions
that will lay the groundwork for more fun stuff like social networking
(thus all the work on pubsub/PEP and various payloads for that).
Jabber Software Foundation
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