[Members] discuss.xmpp.org - Let's establish a great discussion venue for XMPP

Mathieu Pasquet mathieui at mathieui.net
Tue Feb 14 11:27:45 UTC 2017

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:58:02AM +0100, Florian Schmaus wrote:
> On 13.02.2017 12:03, Goffi wrote:
> > Le samedi 11 février 2017, 22:08:29 CET Florian Schmaus a écrit :
> >> Hi everyone,
> > 
> >> [...]
> >> I hereby propose that we fade out mail.jabber.org in favour of a
> >> self-hosted Discourse [1] instance at discuss.xmpp.org. Discourse is an
> >> open source forum that *can be used just like a traditional mailing
> >> list* (I ♥ mailing lists). It is easy to self-host, and I volunteer to
> >> setup that instance and maintain it (I already maintain two Discourse
> >> installations). Furthermore, it provides the required features to
> >> organize the valuable information, e.g. we could tag discussion threads.
> >> Want to find all discussions about XEP-0198? Just click on the tag!
> >> [...]
> > 
> >> the future of XMPP.
> >>
> >> - Florian
> >>
> >> 1: discourse.org
> > 
> > Hello Florian,
> > 
> > 
> > while I'm not against moving to something else (as long as we can still use 
> > standard@ as a mailing list), I find it really sad that in 2017 we are willing 
> > to move main XSF discussion platforms to something centralised (even it's free 
> > software), and most importantly not based on XMPP, it's like confessing a 
> > failure of all the work done.
> > 
> > We have not (yet) a trendy and shiny platform like discourse that's true, but 
> > we have everything we need to do one, and we can do gateway to email network 
> > to keep the current mainly list behaviour.
> > We could use PubSub or normal messages with a webview for now, and move to MIX 
> > in the future. Actually we already have projects of doing a XMPP based mailing 
> > list platform.
> > 
> > That would be a neat demonstration to newcomers of what we can do with XMPP.
> > 
> > If we are not in a rush, I'm pretty sure we can do something nice in a couple 
> > of months, and I would be happy to help with that (it is a project I'm willing 
> > to do for long anyway).
> If you can commit on creating a mailing list replacement with similar
> functionality as Discourse (tags, nice web interface, mobile ready, sane
> mail threading, …) within the next 6 months, then please do so.
> But I doubt that this is feasible, nor within our abilities.
> On the other hand: Why start from scratch when you could simply add
> "XMPP support" to Discourse. That way, you would piggyback on the
> massive user base and traction Discourse already has, and make XMPP
> known to a wider audience. You could start with features like XMPP
> notifications for new posts on subscribed Discourse threads, and
> exposing threads via MIX. It think that would be awesome.
> Starting yet another forum/mailing list software from scratch just
> because there is none based on XMPP doesn't sound like something worth
> putting effort in.

I will state that the concerns I had on discourse were alleviated by
previous replies made in this thread; I however still had at the back
of my mind a little "but we could do that with XMPP!" idea. But I held
that comment back because there is no software addressing that
currently, even though it is technically possible.

Now, adding "XMPP support" to discourse would probably be an interesting
adventure, but is there even a maintained ruby XMPP library? (looking at
it, blather looks like the most credible one, and its last commit was a
year ago). I do think that it would be awesome, but it would be even
more complicated than writing this kind of thing from scratch,
considering the added constraints, not to mention upstreaming.

I do think that starting an XMPP-based forum/mailing list software from
scratch has merits and is worth putting effort in, but I do not think it
is worth it to wait until it exists to move away from mailman 2.


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