[standards-jig] [seybold2001] Simplicity and resilience in standards (fwd)

Scott Cote scote25 at mediaone.net
Wed Sep 19 15:37:49 UTC 2001

Amen! Just take a look a a posting by Julian Fitzell on the DEV list for
of Jabber having the clarity more of HTML than TCP.

>> So looking in message.c it's quite clear that the code is written
assuming that <x>
>> and <body> do not appear together in one message... is this a rule?  The
>> spec is unclear on this but if it is then JabberIM is breaking it.

Please forgive me for being harsh. Its just the same kind of frustration
that caused me
to give up on Java thats making me sour about Jabber. A whole lot of good
work has
been put in place for JEPs yet I feel that before the protocol is extended
it needs a
single clear and concise definition that can resolve questions like the one

Again, I'm sorry for the rant. My emotions are simply porporitional to the
I had for Jabber a while back.



----- Original Message -----
>From: "Peter Saint-Andre" <stpeter at jabber.org>
To: <standards-jig at jabber.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 11:11 AM
Subject: [standards-jig] [seybold2001] Simplicity and resilience in
standards (fwd)

> Some food for thought from another list...
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:05:59 +0100
> From: Julian Bond <julian_bond at voidstar.com>
> Reply-To: seybold2001 at yahoogroups.com
> To: seybold2001 at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [seybold2001] Simplicity and resilience in standards
> This is a revolution in standards I'd like to see but don't expect in my
> lifetime.
> Simplicity and resilience in standards.
> Someone on the de-centralization list said "Standards shouldn't be built
> by amateurs". Well frankly the professionals have made a complete and
> utter hash of it. For a variety of vested interests, the standards we're
> trying to work with are either broken or have grown so vast that they
> might as well be. Or there are an infinite number of standards to choose
> from so they're not really standards are they.
> Stand back, try and hide your own emotional attachment to any one of
> these and take a look.
> - HTML. We still can't agree on what it is. Why do we even need a
> campaign for conformance.
> - XML. Have you seen how many entries there are in the alphabet soup?
> - RSS. No comment.
> - RDF. Make the standard infinitely extendible. So where's the standard?
> - XML-RPC. Almost "good enough", but inherently brittle.
> - SOAP/WSDL/UDDI. I need this in here. And this. And this. And this. How
> did the standard get so big that the BDG was even needed?
> - WAP. Let's re-build HTML for the telecoms industry. Like, Doh! WHY!!?
> - HDTV. Where is it? And why are there 3?
> - GSM, CDMA, G3, and all the other cellphone standards worldwide. What?
> Why are there so many?
> - Java. Which JVM have you got installed? Oh, that's the wrong one.
> - Perl. Check CPAN. See RDF.
> - Unix. Sorry, we haven't ported to that one.
> - Redbook CD. We just need to make a small change to stop you reading
> the data.
> Need I go on? The whole computing industry has been throwing rocks at
> the mirrors and wondering why they can't see themselves afterwards.
> But look at the TCP/IP standards and all the early RFCs. These are
> short, succinct, widely adopted, just plain work and have stood the test
> of time. They are the existence proof that it is possible.
> --
> Julian Bond    email: julian_bond at voidstar.com
> CV/Resume:         http://www.voidstar.com/cv/
> WebLog:               http://www.voidstar.com/
> HomeURL:      http://www.shockwav.demon.co.uk/
> M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173  T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
> ICQ:33679568 tag:So many words, so little time
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