[standards-jig] JNG Ramblings.

Iain Shigeoka iain.shigeoka at messaginglogic.com
Mon Aug 12 17:10:05 UTC 2002


On 8/9/02 10:14 AM, "Marshall Rose"
<mrose+internet.jabber.standards-jig at dbc.mtview.ca.us> wrote:

> hi. a couple of brief comments:
> 
>> The only real drawback to BEEP that I see is that you still need to count
>> octets in the packet in order to generate the frame which is pretty
>> unfriendly to someone typing in things to talk to the server.  To
>> accommodate direct human-to-BEEP interaction, I might propose a small
>> modification to break some of BEEP to provide for non-octet counting based
>> framing...  Maybe just unique begin/end text tags ala multi-part mime.
> 
> my biggest design regret with beep was having to put octet counts in the
> framing mechanism. the problem basically goes like this:
> 
> 1. if you don't want to send arbitrary octets (binary), use the jabber
> approach -- it's simple, elegant, and works real well.
> 
> 2. if you do want to send arbitrary octets, you can either do octet-stuffing
> (e.g., the extra "." in SMTP/POP/etc.) or octet-counting.
> 
> 3. dave clark and dave crocker spent several hours convincing me that
> octet-stuffing was like "sucking dead pigs through a straw" in terms of
> performant implementations.
> 
> 4. this leaves octet-counting which destroys the "telnet-ability" of the
> framing protocol.

:)  Ah the tortures of protocol design.  For open source protocols, I am
under the impression that telnet-ability and script kiddie friendliness are
primary factors for success.  It is a tough call though.

>> PS - I wouldn't be that opposed to coopting some of the APEX stuff too if it
>> seems like it would be useful.  I like the APEX idea that routers and end
>> points are not the same (although they could be).  This seems to be much
>> more ISP friendly and creates the real possibility of moving a lot of the
>> server bottlenecks into hardware (the APEX router stuff).
> 
> actually, i was planning on sending a note to the jabber gurus asking how to
> replicate one key feature of apex by using jabber. i still need to formulate
> the question though. i was planning on send the message in a couple of days to
> the jabber-ietf at jabber.org mailing list.

Could you Cc: standards-jig as well.  The jabber-ietf list is pretty dead so
you'll probably get livelier discussions here.

-iain




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