[standards-jig] Essence of Jabber

Dave dave at dave.tj
Thu Mar 7 01:58:55 UTC 2002


Reply inline:

 - Dave


Shawn Wilton wrote:
> 
> 
> Reply inline:
> 
>  - Shawn
> 
> 
> Shawn Wilton wrote:
> >
> > How is ssl only experimental?  I've been using it for months.  As for
> > definition, it's a difference between connections.  There's no definition
> > needed.
> Just because you've been using something for months, that doesn't mean
> it has to be required for our standard :-(
> 
> -I was trying to indicate that it shouldn't be considered experimental since
> I've been using it for months, not that it should be included for such a
> reason.
Point taken.

> 
> > Instead of putting the bar as low as possible it has to be raised to some
> > degree.  Otherwise jabber is just a carbon copy of everything else out
> > there.
> The bar shouldn't be any higher than necessary to fulfill Jabber's
> purpose: Jabber is _not_ intended to be the killer app to end all killer
> apps, incorperating everything but emacs; it's intended to be the killer
> protocol for IM.  Loading it up with unnecessary fat will just make our
> killer protocol more and more bloated :-(
> 
> -There's little bloat associated with SSL.  Also, if we're going to include
> an encryption namespace, it would make sense to include SSL for plain text
> conversations.  Especially since not everyone can support GPG, or PGP.
> Quite true it's not a killer app.  I would agree 100% there.  As for being a
> killer protocol, I don't see how it's all that much different from msn,
> yahoo, or aim for that matter as of right now.  Except for the fact we use
> xml and they use a binary protocol.  And the fact that you can
> *occasionally* talk to people on other networks.  But even that seems to
> work rarely unless you're on a secluded server.
SSL requires quite a few kilobytes of code to work.  As Julian pointed
out, we're trying to come up with the bare minimum required in order
to be considered a Jabber implementation.  I don't think we should
require it.  (I don't believe support of the encryption namespace should
be a requirement, either, by extension.)

BTW - My server basically has 24/7 connectivity to the AIM and ICQ
networks.  I rarely experience any downtime (except when I forget to bring
my Jabber server and/or AIM-t and/or ICQ-t and/or SMTP-t etc. up after
restarting my system).  I never bothered to install an MSN-t or YIM-t,
so I don't know how good your karma has to be in order for them to work.

> 
> 
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: standards-jig-admin at jabber.org
> > [mailto:standards-jig-admin at jabber.org]On Behalf Of Julian Missig
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 5:05 PM
> > To: standards-jig at jabber.org
> > Subject: Re: [standards-jig] Essence of Jabber
> >
> >
> > SSL connections are currently experimental and not well defined. I
> > definitely do not think SSL compatibility is required for something to
> have
> > absolute base Jabber support.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Shawn Wilton" <shawn at black9.net>
> > To: <standards-jig at jabber.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 19:58
> > Subject: RE: [standards-jig] Essence of Jabber
> >
> >
> > > Honestly, I think ssl compatible connections should be required.  We
> > should
> > > put forth some effort to provide a more secure service.  Do they have to
> > > turn it on, no.  But if you wanna talk compliance, then it should be
> > forced
> > > for inclusion in a product.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Standards-JIG at jabber.org
> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/standards-jig
> >
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> > http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/standards-jig
> >
> 
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