[standards-jig] Re: thoughts on POP3 Offline (JEP-0013)

Jean-Louis Seguineau/EXC/TEC jean-louis.seguineau at antepo.com
Wed Nov 13 17:52:34 UTC 2002


Peter,

I do not totally aggree with your statement quote:
>    Without the ability to query a given client for feature sets,
>    POP3-like offline message handling is incompatible with the
>    existing offline model.

We have implemented a very simple model that allow both offline message
handling to work together without resorting to the full feature negitiation>
The offline message retrieval is triggered by the initial presence a client
is sending to the server. If you ad an extension to the presence message,
then the client has a way to advertise its support for a given namespace.
The client sends the following snippet (this is an extract of our
implementation of the offline management, hence the different namspace, but
it can easily be converted):

<presence>

<show>Chat</show>

<status>Here I am again.</status>

<x xmlns='xmpp:x:omm'/>

        </presence>

and the server is answering with an headline message such as

<message type='headline' to='user at domain'>

<subject>Offline messages</subject>

<body>You have 4 offline messages waiting</body>

<x xmlns='xmpp:x:omm'>

<item jid='contact1 at domain' count='3'/>

<item jid='contact2 at domain'/>

</x>

          </message>

from then on you are back to using the normal iq to handle the rest of the
dialog. This is a generic solution that allow to catter for offline
managemet aware client and the old generation.

--jean louis

----- Original Message -----
> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:15:59 -0600 (CST)
> From: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter at jabber.org>
> To: standards-jig at jabber.org
> Subject: [standards-jig] thoughts on POP3 Offline (JEP-0013)
> Reply-To: standards-jig at jabber.org
>
> Based on discussions held in the last Council meeting [1], I've thought
> some more about JEP-0013 (POP3 Handling of Offline Messages) [2]. Here are
> some tentative suggestions:
>
> 1. It would be good to bring the namespace into line with the newer
> conventions (e.g., "http://jabber.org/protocol/offline").
>
> 2. It would be good for a user to receive more information in the headers.
> Specifically, the subject and thread might be useful.
>
> 3. Section 2.4 (Compatibility) says the following:
>
>    Without the ability to query a given client for feature sets,
>    POP3-like offline message handling is incompatible with the
>    existing offline model.
>
> This was true when the JEP was written but is no longer accurate given
> the existence of JEP-0020 (Feature Negotiation) [3]. I suggest that
> handling of offline messages is a fine example of feature negotiation. It
> might work as follows:
>
> Step 1. User logs in but does not send presence.
>
> Step 2. User asks if the offline namespace is supported.
>
> <iq type='get' to='myserver' id='a1'>
>   <query xmlns='jabber:iq:disco'/>
> </iq>
>
> Step 3. Server replies in the affirmative.
>
> <iq type='result' from='myserver' to='me at myserver/foo' id='a1'>
>   <query xmlns='jabber:iq:disco'>
>     ...
>     <feature type='http://jabber.org/protocol/offline'/>
>     ...
>   </query>
> </iq>
>
> Step 4. User asks if pop3 handling of offline messages is supported.
>
> <iq type='get' id='a2'>
>   <query xmlns='jabber:iq:negotiate'>
>     <feature type='http://jabber.org/protocol/offline'>
>       <option>pop3</option>
>     </feature>
>   </query>
> </iq>
>
> Step 5. Server replies in the affirmative.
>
> <iq type='result' from='myserver' to='me at myserver/foo' id='a2'/>
>
> Step 6. User retrieves headers as shown in Example 1 of the JEP.
>
> And so on from there.
>
> 4. David Waite suggested retrieving offline messages via disco. I played
> around with this some but it would seem to require that at some point in
> the process every message is a JID (e.g., me at myserver/indox/some-uid)
> which is sub-optimal IMHO.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Peter
>
> [1] log at
>
http://www.jabber.org/chatbot/logs/conference.jabber.org/foundation/2002-11-
08.html
>
> [2] http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0013.html
>
> [3] http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0020.html
>
> --
> Peter Saint-Andre
> Jabber Software Foundation
> http://www.jabber.org/people/stpeter.php
>





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