[standards-jig] IBB: Making it all "go"

Tijl Houtbeckers thoutbeckers at splendo.com
Thu Apr 10 01:55:21 UTC 2003

Daniel Chote <daniel at chote.net> wrote on 10-4-2003 2:36:06:

>Now, i know that if the server implementations worked properly, other 
>than the offline storage issue from the s2s latency, it would be 
>reasonable.. but, still very irrelevant to the definition of the 
><message/> packet.

Straight from the still fresh XMPP core draft 08:

About the message "stanza".

Message stanzas in the 'jabber:client' or 'jabber:server' namespace are 
used to "push" information to another entity. Common uses in the 
context of instant messaging include single messages, messages sent in 
the context of a chat conversation, messages sent in the context of a 
multi-user chat room, headlines, and errors. These messages types are 
identified more fully below. " 

We are "pushing" information here, so that would fit the description. 

However, we want more then just that, in many cases we want to have 
things like flow rate control, 100% reliability, and we only want our 
packets to be delivered to the same resource and client that we started 
the streams with and we want no offline storage (as an extra it might 
be nice in some cases though). I think we *all* agree on this? 

All this can be done today, right now, with <iq> and it can not be done 
with <message>. 

XMPP core on the <iq> stanza, agrees with Rachel:
Info/Query, or IQ, is a request-response mechanism, similar in some 
ways to HTTP[24]. "
Wich to me doesn't sound like it would exclude IBB.

So I'd say, if there is a group wich has reached consencus that for 
whatever reason we should use message instead of IQ stanzas they (we'll 
all help as ussual ofcourse) start fixing <message/> till it can fill 
at least the same basic requirments that <iq/> already handles (most 
likely using JEP 22 and 23 as a starting point). Until they do, or at 
least state to do so , I see no reason for Justin K. to incorperate 
<message/> into his JEP, or the council/JEP-editor to tell him to do 
that, unless it is their believe that Justin is also responsible for 
fixing problems concering the message stanza. 

Then I'd like to add one more thing the discussion, and that thing is 
XMPP. Using the <iq/> stanza the JEP would depend merely on XMPP Core 
(wich is nice cause it's not necisarly IM centric). I don't know what 
the chances are for JEP 22 and 23 or simulair functionality (needed for 
IBB) making it into XMPP Core (slim?), but I think if IBB would depend 
on it, it should at be included in the final XMPP IM spec. If the 
message stanza is meant for this type usage the tools to do so should 
be part of standard functionality. 

Tijl Houtbeckers
Software Engineer @ Splendo
The Netherlands

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